5 years in and pretty much zero improvements to clouds

“Can we use live weather to reliably plan” has always been a primary metric for me, with aesthetics coming an important second. With the exception of the more ephemeral types/stages of thunderstorms and the aforementioned differentiation (and density) of cloud types, the weather in the places I fly has been depicted very well lately.

If folks aren’t getting those same results where they fly, there are a bunch of reasons that might be the case. Collecting and presenting data might help alleviate some of that.

But the biggest thing that would help all of this would be for Asobo to give us some insight into the weather engine. An overview of how it ingests data and outputs what we see, along with any updates they’ve been doing under the hood and an acknowledgement or maybe a roadmap to address the issues that still remain could go a long way. My gut feel is that incremental changes are made in a silo that doesn’t cross paths with the development roadmap.

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That would be a great topic for a future SDK-staff livestream, or whoever would be responsible for that. I think Seb has mentioned a few times that he has tweaked cloud settings.

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Guess which airports have a METAR station…

I hope this improves soon

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Just out of interest, do you see the same thing in the US?

It’s not region-specific. If METAR disagrees with the weather simulation, there will be a white blob. Never seen the inverse, curiously. Caribbean, Pacific islands, S America, Indonesia, are good candidates to find these white spots. It’s quite ridiculous how literally the system uses a casual observation of BKN and massacres the weather picture.

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The question is why does there seem to be more disagreement in those regions than others? Where that isn’t happening as much, why is there more data filling in the spots in between reporting stations?

I can just about make them out also, surrounded by very similar weather.

If you change the time of day they become more dinstinct.

When I look to my home country of the UK, and I don’t see that. I see the Meteoblue weather, but not distinct spots.

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I only see these circles in South America

The problem I see with these circles is that far from the METAR (outside the circles) the weather is quite close to the METAR, but inside the circle, at the airport itself, the clouds become completely disordered, as seen in the image.

far from the airport

at the airport

Now the important thing is to know why the clouds change so much inside the circle.

I think it’s especially obvious where there are isolated METAR stations. In USA or UK (Hobanerik’s example an hour ago) the data probably still gets interpolated at the smaller scale so that the overall picture is not so distinguishable from Meteoblue which is overall OK but has local disagreements. I think the point is that unless we learn to live with these disagreements, the weather system will keep ending up between a plausible scenario and a handicaped truth.

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What intrigues me is why the weather looks much more like the METAR outside the circle than inside. Within the METAR station’s radius, the weather often shows a lot of clouds without any pattern.

I agree. My theory is it has to do with more long-period, synoptic-scale weather in the mid latitudes. That versus what we see in the tropics, which is more ephemeral - think airmass-type thunderstorms that ebb and flow throughout the day. I notice the longer and larger a contiguous weather pattern exists, the higher the chances it will be in the sim.

I think this goes back to the general issue the sim has with producing thunderstorms - we see these discrepancies in the southern plains and southeastern US in the summer as well. We don’t really see accurate depiction and evolution of those airmass-type storms because, again, they’re so ephemeral - random atmospheric chance of initiation dictates downstream behavior, until nighttime (usually). But these micro evolutions are often happening on a timescale of an hour or less - too fast for even computer models to predict accurately, other than just spamming a general area. That is, unless they form a solid, persistent line along a synoptic-scale frontal boundary, but even that seems to take a few hours to show up in the sim.

So apply that notion to the equatorial and subequatorial regions, where storm evolution is almost always ephemeral. Here’s a good example from the GOES East satellite:

During the day the visual picture is a mess of cirrus that obscure the actual storms, but infrared at night it’s easier to see the higher cloud tops that denote the individual cells. Note there are other satellite bands that can better indicate the storm structure - IR water vapor and cloud top phase (below) being among the best:

But again, we don’t know what MB is using to ingest and compute the output. This is where models fail and clash with observations. And satellite is going to miss a lot of smaller-scale, non-storm-related cloud structure.

I still think the best way to do storms is by using radar, which is the closest to real-time granularity we’re going to get. Everything else is kind of a WAG. But unfortunately radar is not super available worldwide (and there might be data-use limitations on top of that as well).

Bottom line, this all shows there’s a lot going on under the hood with regard to live clouds. It would be really nice to know what the official line is so we can all stop wondering and trying to figure it out. What kind of data drives the output - satellite, radar, METAR, modeling? All? What kind of timescale does it follow? Why do some areas seem to have better “in-between” coverage and less obvious METAR augmentation than others?

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Hi guys on the accuracy of clouds this is my routine flight from RENO to SFO and using TLOD=800… this is not far from our real weather today.

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Can you post a picture of the real-life weather for comparison? I just did a comparison between RL, MSFS, and XP and the results were not good, to say the least.

Took those this AM and now after dinner. In general in SF Bay Area we have a number of layers. Lowest fog/marine stratus and them some cumulus over the hills… coastal range and the Sierra Nevada. Anyway, has been good enough for me… I’ll give them the artist’s impression license.

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Some more clouds from this Am on same flight. Pretty happy with this. We have real weather and this is my weather flight.

Reno to High Sierra; Entering Bay Area coastal stratus; at SFO.

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Would look much nicer if the high-level clouds were more opaque and also less scattered; in general high-level clouds are swept by very strong winds and have a paint-brushed appearance.

The main (and really only) problem is that the cloud-shading technique is off; and the CB in your 2nd shot would be too dark if everything else was darker as well. So instead of redoing the shading, they instead reduced the maximum cloud opacity in Live WX, and this brings us back to the title of this thread.

But that last shot looks awesome; although I do wish haze wasn’t limited to a 25-mile ring around the METAR station and then disappears.

MSFS could really use a weather-exclusive Sim Update, which is what I’m waiting for to finally make the jump to FS2024. On the day it drops I must play the lottery :grinning:

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Yeah, see what you mean in the first one about the high level clouds should be cirrus whispy. Have to keep an eye on this and, I assume, it never happens.

The second one is interesting for me as I actually used to fly here and we would dip into that milk of coastal stratus that comes in from the Pacific Ocean. The cumulus stuff is over the coastal range and is not unusual (orographic lifting I believe is the term).

On the ILS the visibility/ground fog has improved and you can see a pretty realistic fade to the coastal hills. I used to do this type of programming 20 years ago and the machines we used had a “fog” function which was essentially perfect based on the Z-distance. Not sure what they are doing but it has improved… used to ratchet into view.

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And this is how the weather below the St/Sc deck looked like yesterday in vicinity of OAK. The dominant color is gray. MSFS is technically able of this, just not in live weather :pensive_face:

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Gets pretty complex pretty fast. I see why you liked the one at the terminal and maybe short final at SFO.