A2A Comanche - Full VR Flight Live - Best GA Aircraft EVER!

Last night, we went live and took the A2A Comanche on two full flights in VR starting out in San Diego and ending up in Monterey, CA… Well… we actually ended up diverting due to low ceilings and landed at Hollister, CA… But that was all part of the incredible realism of this flight. We did the full walkaround and startup from cold and dark (never mind the CTD we had after the walkaround :rofl: ) and then put this beauty through her paces on two realistic flights.

Thoughts - I own/fly a Piper Arrow, so I don’t have experience with the Comanche. Having said that, they are similar enough for me to draw some conclusions. And, without a doubt, this aircraft that A2A has produced is simply the most realistic, accurate, best sounding GA aircraft ever produced for any sim - ever. Period. Debate me if you want :rofl:

The flight model is incredible. No other aircraft I have ever flown in a sim gives the feeling of the aircraft reacting to the environment around it like this one. In VR, it feels like you are actually flying - the way the air buffets the aircraft in turbulence. The way trim actually does work! You can trim for hands-off flying in each phase of flight - climbing out, we had it trimmed out and it just held pitch based on the power setting I had put in. Just like the real ones. Same with descent (even though that was in some moderate turbulence). I never felt like I was fighting the aircraft.

Sounds are simply incredible. I have an IO-360-C1C in the Arrow so it’s a little different, but the way the engine sounds when power is smoothly applied on takeoff is spot-on-accurate. I mean - exactly like the real thing. Same with the sounds of the air passing across the wings and fuselage - in calm air, it’s a nice, constant, light swishing… but when we hit turbulence, you could hear the whooosh of the air as we were forced down, then quieter as the aircraft regained altitude. Again, spot on. The way the aircraft bounces when taxiing… perfect.

Systems - I don’t have enough energy to type enough praise for how detailed this aircraft is regarding system depth. Everything reacts as in real life to power/rpm/mixture settings… I mean it’s perfect. The JPI 830 is just like the real one. The STEC30 is modeled perfectly, as well - including its shortcomings. I flew behind one of these early in primary training, and the way this analog, rate-based device hunts for its course when coupled to a GPS is spot-on-accurate-realistic. I could go on and on, but this is getting too long. Conclusion - this aircraft is pretty near perfect. No other aircraft has actually made me feel like I am flying a light piston single like this one… Check it out if you want -

Check out the channel if you want to see more live VR flights like this one in a variety of aircraft. We have a lot of fun on these live streams in the chat which is always fun and lively - VR Sim Pilot

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Nice. I agree. There are other planes I enjoy flying in the sim, but this one is uniquely enjoyable. Really a big step forward in GA realism.

Question: When you are trimmed for level flight cruising altitude/speed, what does the lever above the cockpit show? And what does the HUD show?

Mine shows close to neutral for the lever, and -50% (down) in the HUD. SPAD data viewer for Trim_Position_Indicator matches the HUD data. Scott with A2A assured me that I shouldn’t worry about what MSFS shows (or reports to SPAD.) But it bugs me. None of my other GA aircraft do this. Then again, none of my other GA aircraft use AccuSim. I’m just curious what others see.

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Hi! I’m not sure what the crank position shows, to be honest… I know that, as I was trimming using the rocker switches on my yoke, I could see the crank moving out of the corner of my eye in VR. And I know the trim indicator did move (I had to reset it after landing to neutral as it was a bit nose up in trim)… So I would say that the visible control (the crank) and the trim indicator do move accurately when trim is applied via a physical control binding.

I don’t know what HUD you are talking about, unfortunately. I don’t use SPAD, either.

:frowning: Sorry this probably wasn’t much help.

Oh, and one thing I forgot to mention that I have never seen in any simulated aircraft - in flight, you can actually see the aircraft skin on the wing buckled up from the pressure! Incredible. And when you are on the ground, the skin is smooth again. Exactly as it looks in real life! Absolutely incredible level of detail.

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In the sim you can set up HUD views for the cockpit and the external chase view.
I don’t do VR, so I make no promises there… :wink:

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I don’t know what the point would be of using the HUD instruments in the first place, but I also can’t see why it matters if they match the trim indicator in the aircraft. The reality is, the correct trim setting for level flight is never a specific value; it’s whatever works at the time. This will change on every flight as environmental conditions, aircraft loading, altitude, power setting, and everything else change. Just trim for level flight… It doesn’t matter what the trim readout says ;).

The ‘correct’ trim amount is obviously whatever works at the time.

I’ve never seen -50% trim reported in level flight at cruise in any of my other GA aircraft.
Have you?

The point is that the trim reported by MSFS and SPAD does not match the position of the virtual trim handle in the cockpit. Which is right? I don’t know. I like to know. Call it OCD if you want.

Have you seen Twilight Zone S2:E18 called ‘The Odyssey of Flight 33’? At one point the navigator reports ground speed of 3,000 kts before they break through a time barrier and see dinosaurs in Central Park. It’s like that. My instruments tell me something I don’t believe.

The HUD in external view is a good quick snapshot of important metrics.
I use the free mod ‘Shift+Z’ to turn it on/off with a single key press.
Sometimes I like it on, sometimes I like it off.

Choices.

The trim in a Stearman in level flight is often at least halfway between neutral and full nose down (what I assume is meant by 50% nose down) so yep, I’ve seen that an awful lot in real life. In the sim I would not know because I could tell you the rough position of the control I actually move, but not what an arbitrary gauge reads in the cockpit, because there’s never been a reason to monitor that. :man_shrugging:

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My posts are strictly referring to the A2A Comanche 250. My question is whether the stabilator is actually trimmed -50% in level cruise when the virtual lever in the cockpit shows that trim is neutral.
No one (not even Scott Gentile) can tell me that.

I guess we have different needs/wants. You don’t use a trim gauge. I do.

I want a gauge to be accurate, not arbitrary. What if your airspeed indicator showed 120 kias when the plane was actually flying at 70 kias? Landings would be fun. Commercial airliners have been brought down by discrepancies between instrumentation and actual metrics.

Thanks for your input.

I think I do remember that the trim indicator overhead (next to the crank) was showing slightly nose down in level flight at about 160 mph IAS. That was on the indicator in the cockpit overhead - not the HUD. Sorry, I don’t know what the HUD would show since I don’t have it active.

I can say that this airplane trims out for the various phases of flight like no other I have ever used in the sim. It is almost exactly the way I would trim the real Arrow in flight (different airplane, but close). It just feels - right. I’m never fighting the airplane. Relieving pressure from the yoke with trim feels just like it does in real life. Amazing!

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I agree that it flys really, really well. The level of detail is amazing, and the ‘feel’ on the ground and in the air is as good as it gets.

I very much look forward to A2A’s future AccuSim releases. And I would love to see Asobo work out a deal with Scott to more closely integrate that technology into the base sim. It really is a game changer.

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You specifically asked me if I’d seen this type of trim down condition in “any of my other GA airplanes.”. I simply answered you that yes, I have seen it in another airplane - in reality and in the sim version.

It’s quite common to see a nose down trim value in fast cruise, in any airplane.

Obviously, a trim indication and an airspeed indication do not have the same requirements regarding accuracy. In a small airplane, all you need to know is where proper takeoff trim is, and since loading conditions don’t change enough to drastically change the proper takeoff trim, this is usually not expressed as a value but simply a mark. Beyond that, the trim goes where it needs to and the percentage value of movement is meaningless to the pilot.

Im enjoying this aircraft also. Im having to study the systems …i managed to crash due to loss of Manifold pressure and learned belatedly about using carb heat. Im my days as a rl 172 jockey, I never flew in weather, and generally used carb heat with reduced throttle as on approach.

My only concern is how mousing the handles for mixture and rpm I get a jumpiness (like a low sensitivty in the signal). Tends to make leaning more exciting than it should be.

I also tend to skid upon landing, but Im getting better. Ill accept pilot error as the root cause, unless others are skidding a bit too.

Ive NEVER enjoyed a more realisting take off run than with this bird.

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I skid a bit too on landing, but that all me…. Getting better though…

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Typically I’m one line down trim for cruise, usually at 22/2000 ~60%, and between the first, and second line up trim for approach.

Have you not got a spare axis on any controller you could bind it to via the control configuration app? I use the mini throttle on my joystick that’s not needed for this plane.

Also mapped buttons on that stick for engine starter (top), show/hide tablet (bottom) and the left and right buttons on the EDM. Works great!

You really shouldn‘t. A trim gauge is only an indicator for takeoff trim, nothing eise. If you use it during flight you use trim as a flight control which is inherently wrong. Trim is never to be used to control the plane but always and only the way to neutralize control forces. An airplane is correctly flown „in trim“ so you let the airplane do what it does best and only control it, not fight it. The moment you use a gauge to set a specific trim you give up control to become a passenger of an airplane that doesn‘t do what it does best (flying straight ahead) but tries to equalize the forces between wing and stabilizer.

Trim is always different depending on weight, speed and CG. It‘s different if you fly with different pax, it‘s different if you have different baggage in the back than the day before and it changes during flight while you burn fuel. Scott can‘t tell you because there is no „right“ value. The trim is somewhere and it‘s save as long as your CG is within certified limits. But you can not trim to a gauge value and then fly the plane by this trim setting.

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Sorry, but that makes no sense. Trim is used throughout a flight to minimize the need for constant control inputs. Trim up during takeoffs and as speed lowers during approaches. Slight trim adjustments to maintain straight and level flight during cruise. What do you think the autopilot does? In that sense trim definitely acts as a ‘flight control.’

And people (including you) seem to not understand what my issue is with the discrepancies in the trim indicator in this aircraft. Show me a screenshot of any other GA aircraft you fly in normal level cruise that shows you -50% trim in the Chase Plane HUD. You don’t use the HUD, or anything else that monitors trim outside the cockpit? Fine - don’t worry about it then.

When I trim using the wheel on my Bravo I like to have a reference point that shows me the percentage I’m adjusting trim (whether it’s the HUD, or on my Class Echo. It’s nice to see -2% or 2% indicated as I move the wheel. But if I have to use -52% or -48% to achieve the same adjustment, well…that’s just disconcerting. I realize that I can use AoA, VSI, and Heading and Attitude Indicators to adjust trim. I do that as well. But why is it so wrong to want to use a trim position indicator that makes sense?

I find myself worrying more about why my simple explanations aren’t being understood than worrying about the actual issue. So I think it’s time to just say, “Have fun, and enjoy flying this amazing aircraft.”

That’s wrong. If you wouldn’t do that and used trim as intended you wouldn’t mind about the indication. But that’s on you, as you say. I assume the external system and flight modelling of the Comanche is simply not comatible with the external view hud.

LOL…no it’s not.

Seriously, are you honestly suggesting that pilots don’t use trim during takeoffs, climbouts, and landing approaches?

Or any external data monitor that shows SimConnect trim position.
That’s the issue.

No of course not. But it’s not used to fly the airplane but to neutralize control forces. You don’t change the trim in order to lift or lower the nose you only use it if you would have to constantly push or pull the yoke. You don’t maintain level flight with the trim but with either the the yoke/stick or the power. The trim would be used if you constantly had to hold the controls in position. If you slow down you don’t trim up but you pull the yoke back to hold the nose up. Then you trim the forces away. That way you don’t need any trim gauge because the relevant factor is your arm muscles, not the flight path.

For takeoff you set the trim to the takeoff position which is marked on the ceiling. If you have pax in the back you set it slightly forward, if you have a heavy pax in the front and nobody in the back you might set it slightly to the back. You may note that the TO trim marking is in the forward section of the trim indication so that might as well cause the -50%.