About Next Level racing motion V3 for simming

Hi, I added a Buttkicker Gamer 2, using the clamp kit included in the v3 pack. Fits really well and the added engine vibrations add a lot. There are people who use Simshaker for Aviators plus Voicemeeter to drive the shaker and say that it’s really good … I haven’t done that, I just drive mine from the standard audio output using the headphone jack ‘Y’ adapter that came with it. I find that works pretty well (although it can be a bit strange if you’re listening to heavy metal while in the cruse :laughing:). There’s more discussion in this topic.

Please let me know if you get a response from NLR. I read through their help files although it wasn’t clear how much you could do to customize the profile directly and at what point you would need to use the SDK. I think we could get a lot more out of the motion platform by adding some modest random role oscillations to inject some turbulence effects. MSFS telemetry does generate turbulence in some very specific circumstances, but not nearly enough. As I remember from the dim and distant past, even a clear blue sky can be a pretty bumpy place in a small plane!

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Good to know about the Buttkicker Gamer 2, I may have found one in Europe (overpriced… but it looks like my only option).

About the profile, I found a trick to have a more realistic feeling during turns: I keep the Body Roll Gain very low (0.3) compared to the Body Roll Rate Gain (2.0) and use negative linearity (-0.5) in the Roll Post-Processing to make the platform sway in the correct direction (opposite to the standard, which is mimicking the body position). I attach below the Hex of my motion settings if you want to give it a try and let me know what you think:

+M1+000004fe78dabd93310ec2300c45ef92b9444edcd871af526583a103138805f5eeb4a4850aa5c12c6489143fc7f6b77e7f37c3d174d098e17a3a5f4cd7bf1e6e6eba2cc2f338271ec447a129e04de7ec4ce04cc0d8e41c9773726887f199f11600051920881043bb9f818a5f5b0513140c2918563051c1c8aaf0c24049d1650d5ca6d246f9e2faaa0dfcb0ae2af39705a54d47ca51ddfea86515f1fd75da345e2c77001b0038323263e0367af9284f85f23e9ba9658ac82ec4afc293427852084f0ae149e10c52388314ce208533aaccea8c3ae46a501ad30346d22c4e-

Have a happy Sunday!

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I bought mine at aerosoft’s (around 200 euros) but just checked and it’s out of stock right now. Thanks @TELLURICO1975 for the profile, I`ll give it a go when I´m back home later this week.

Cheers

Carlos

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Hi @TELLURICO1975 thanks for sharing the profile. I must admit that I never even thought of using the postprocessing to reverse the roll motion. That’s a really smart idea. I tried your profile last night and - wow - it’s a big improvement!

I also disabled the VR compensation - the bizarre pitch oscillation generated by the ground roll effects is pretty bad and the compensation seems to really exasperate that. For the kind of flying that I do (primarily DC6 … so it’s pretty gentle), the VR compensation isn’t needed at all in my opinion.

I might do a bit more experimentation with the profile. I think that a slightly nonlinear curve to emphasize the initial roll slightly might be effective. What kind of flying do you typically do?

Thanks again for the profile and good luck finding a Buttkicker. I had to hunt around for mine as they do seem to be in limited supply as @chass32 says. I think I paid equivalent of almost 300EUR for mine here in the UK … another quite expensive toy, but worth it for how much immersion it adds.

Thank you @ClayishCoast9, happy you found it useful. I mostly fly general aviation aircrafts and helicopters in FS2020 + fighters and helicopters in DCS. I agree VR HeadWay is useless on a 2 DoF system like ours and leave it disabled. The small movement of the head give even more the feeling of getting the Gs. With the TrackIR it’s a bit worst, but I tend to lower the platform movement when not in VR.

Apart from this, I have great news!
@chass32 I believe you will find useful the contents of this message as well.

Yesterday I got a reply from NLR’s support and they suggested me to clone the FS2020 profile to be able to force it using the 6DoF script instead of the standard one. To my great surprise, it was still moving the platform in the wrong direction sideways. I tested all the other scripts (3DoF normal and IK, ecc.) and found subtle differences but all were moving the platform in the wrong direction during turns. I noticed all the scripts were written for FSX, not FS2020, probably because the telemetry output in both simulators is the same, but maybe some value is reversed and that’s why we get the strange behavior.

I started digging the C++ code in the various scripts and understood how it works. It’s pretty easy with a basic understanding of coding. It was enough to remove a minus sign in a few values to get the platform moving in the right direction sideways. But then I got carried away and started experimenting for a few hours (it’s good you can edit the code in real time while flying, just saving the file will apply the difference without the need to exit and re-enter FS).

What I came out with at the end is, I think, the best starting point we can squeeze out of a 2 DoF platform as the V3.

I fixed or added:

  • Corrected lateral Gs and mixed in other subtle values during turns
  • Added influence of body rotation velocity on the Y axis, giving authority to the rudder pedals (very cool if you try a side slip while landing!)
  • Added the feeling of acceleration when you add or remove throttle in flight (the so called “surge” effect)
  • Added lateral G-forces on the ground (the platform will tilt in the correct direction when using pedals during taxi or take off)
  • Realistic ground effects based on the actual Gs received from the telemetry (you can leave the ugly “faked effect” off). You can really feel the difference between tarmac and grass now LOL
  • Many other little tweaks and fixes

Instructions to test the profile without affecting your configuration:

1: Click the Clone button on the default profile

2: Use the following settings:

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3: You will find a copy of all the profile scripts in the Documents/MotionSystems/ForceSeatPM/Scripts folder. Please download this zip which includes all the files you need: ZIP

Add my profile file (Flight_Simulator_2020_Tellurico1975.cpp) here:

4: Check your settings and point to the correct cpp file here:

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5: Save the settings and check all the values are set to the default values (I tweaked the values in the script to give an average movement with everything set on default, you can fiddle with the settings to fine tune it. Keep in mind “Gain” is the fuselage position and “Rate Gain” the actual Gs):

6: Set the SFX like this (I will see if I can make the gear effect better somehow):

7: Use Roll and Pitch Post-Processing to fine tune the excursion of the platform (more Offset = more excursion), you can also work with Gain to make it more responsive close to the central point:

07

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The following lines of code is where basically the magic happens, and telemetry data is converted to motion (after applying some rules and filters in other parts of the code):

// ROLL
	ctx.output.motion.vectorMode.roll_rad  += MSSA::bound(-LeftRightMaxAngle, g_filtered_FieldTurnRateRoll             *  0.025f * motionTune.Body_Roll_Gain.v,                   LeftRightMaxAngle); // Roll Position
	ctx.output.motion.vectorMode.roll_rad  += MSSA::bound(-LeftRightMaxAngle, g_filtered_XRate                         *  0.025f * motionTune.Body_Roll_Rate_Gain.v,              LeftRightMaxAngle); // Roll Gs (Current Bank Speed)

    // YAW
    if (simOnGround)
	{
        ctx.output.motion.vectorMode.roll_rad  += MSSA::bound(-LeftRightMaxAngle, g_filtered_FieldRotationVelocityBodyY    *  -0.075f * motionTune.Body_Roll_Rate_Gain.v,              LeftRightMaxAngle); // Yaw pedal feeling enhanced on the ground
    }
    else{
        ctx.output.motion.vectorMode.roll_rad  += MSSA::bound(-LeftRightMaxAngle, g_filtered_FieldRotationVelocityBodyY    *  -0.03f * motionTune.Body_Roll_Rate_Gain.v,              LeftRightMaxAngle); // Yaw pedal feeling in the air
    }

    // PITCH
	ctx.output.motion.vectorMode.pitch_rad += MSSA::bound(-RearFrontMaxAngle, g_filtered_FieldPitch                    * -0.005f * motionTune.Body_Pitch_Gain.v,                  RearFrontMaxAngle); // Pitch Position
	ctx.output.motion.vectorMode.pitch_rad += MSSA::bound(-RearFrontMaxAngle, g_filtered_FieldFinalAccForward          *  0.010f * motionTune.Body_Pitch_Gain.v,                RearFrontMaxAngle); // Surge Acceleration
    ctx.output.motion.vectorMode.pitch_rad += MSSA::bound(-RearFrontMaxAngle, g_filtered_YRate                         * -0.05f * motionTune.Body_Pitch_Rate_Gain.v,              RearFrontMaxAngle); // Pitch Gs

In the ZIP file you find the complete profile to be imported (I don’t know if it includes the scripts as well) and the Hex code if you want to do it manually.
Please test it out and let me know what you think. My Buttkicker will arrive tomorrow, I will try to make custom gear and engine effects for that as well…

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Thank you @TELLURICO1975 !!! Thats brilliant! Cant wait to try it when I´ll get home on friday evening!

Cheers!

Carlos

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Hi! Impressive mate! I didn´t have too much time to try it, (I just made a short VFR flight with the 172 by the Pyrenees with a touch and go in a couple of airports) but the difference when banking was noticeable.
Please let us know if you keep tinkering the configuration @TELLURICO1975.

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Thank you for testing the profile out @chass32 ! :heart_eyes:
I have more than 300 real life flight hours on gliders and tested some small fast engine plane as well. I tried to replicate the forces as I used to feel them during real flights.

As a way to get distracted from the bad news of these terrible war days, I worked the whole weekend and remade everything from scratch. I have created several profiles, one for each typology of aircraft. I also assigned the various effects on the sliders in order to be able to selectively tweak or remove them.

In THIS ZIP you will find the following profiles, that can directly be imported in the configurator:

FS2020 GA (GENERAL AVIATION)
Tailor made for small and medium GA aircrafts (any Cessna, Cub, up to the TBM or the King Air)

FS2020 ACRO
I used the Extra 300 to create this. Suitable for all aerobatic aircrafts able to pull crazy Gs and hyperfast rolls

FS2020 AIRLINERS
Made with the A320, may work well with all liners up to the 747 and other very slow-rolling and old planes

FS2020 JET FIGHTERS
I used the MB339 to tune this, may be good also with the F18 (I use DCS for these kind of planes usually, and I am building a custom profile for DCS as well)

FS2020 HELI
Helicopters have a completely different approach about forces. I was able to use a multiplier/demultiplier based on ground speed (both forward and backwards) to have the actual pitch and roll position when hovering or at low speeds, and translate gradually to actual G forces when the helicopter speed increases. I think the effect is amazing!
I used the Boeing H135 to tune this profile.

Forces Configuration
You can use the sliders in the program interface to manage the single effects as follows (unfortunately it’s not possible to change the slider names to match the specific effects):

  • Body Pitch Gain affects the pitch position of the aircraft, adding a subtle feeling of inclination for example when you are on the runway with a tricycle plane as the Extra. The effect activates only when the engine is turned on to prevent a bug where the platform continues to go in and out of pause mode when the plane is on the ground and the engine is off.

  • Body Roll Gain affects the amount of yaw pedal feeling to simulate lateral acceleration when moving the pedals. This is super cool if side-slipping the plane during steep landings in my opinion.

  • Body Pitch Rate Gain will affect both the “surge” effect (the feeling of acceleration and deceleration when on the ground or in flight) and the tarmac/soil vibrations. The surge effect in planes like the Extra 300 can sum or subtract its value from the vertical G accelerations, so it’s a matter of taste the choice to keep it and with how much influence. I will try to explain this: on a 2DoF platform as the V3 we only have the pitch movement to address both the simulation of G forces and surge acceleration. There may be extreme situations where one limits the effect of the other. A good example is when you pull the stick to climb fast in an aerobatic plane: the platform pitches backwards to simulate the positive value, but you are also losing speed at the same time, so the deceleration will subtract pitch to the platform to simulate the loss of speed of the aircraft. At the standard value of 0, I tried to mix the forces to keep the Gs “winning” on the deceleration in most situations, anyway.
    I would need a 6DoF platform to try and make the two effects separated… but I guess my wife wouldn’t agree, LOL!

  • Body Roll Rate Gain affects the lateral Gs you get when moving the stick sideways (the effect which is simulated in the opposite way in the default profile). This can be brutal on the Extra 300, so be careful :joy:

  • Vertical G-Force Gain affects the pitch Gs

I worked with Motion Post Processing at default values to be able to get all the extent of the platform, you can fiddle with it to make the profiles more or less responsive and to limit the excursion as explained in the post above.

ButtKicker
On Friday I got my super overpriced ButtKicker Gamer 2. I tried to understand if I could use the internal haptic system from the motion platform software but it is very limited, so I ended up using the amazing SimShaker, you can find the related post with all instructions here: LINK
There is a payware part (around 20 Euro, but super worth it) to get all the effects, but it is developed by a Russian guy, thus my PayPal payment on Friday was not accepted due to this crazy situation, I had to use the credit card option, I really hope it is still working after the new limitations on Russian banks.

VR
I have an Oculus Rift S and I don’t use the VR HeadWay in FS2020 because it gives me strange artifacts. It is acceptable anyway, because the head movement induced by the platform movement simulates the actual head movements you would get on high accelerations.
In DCS it works well instead, and I have to say it does it work pretty well when pulling strong Gs or during fast turns. I hope they will fix the artifacts problem with the Oculus.

TrackIR
When not in VR I use Track IR, where the head movement problem becomes an issue on big excursions. To overcome it, I disabled some axis, like this:

TrackIR

That’s all… I really hope you will find the time to test the new profiles and let me know what you think about it :grinning:

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God, I need time (and more brains) to process all that. Amazing job! For business jets (like the longitude) what profile do you recommend, arliners or GA ?
Yep Simshaker and its sound module are totally worthy. With your profiles and buttkicker this is starting to be serious stuff.

Cheers
Carlos

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Thank you!
Sorry for going a bit long in the previous post, I just wanted to put everything down also as a reminder for me :rofl:

I didn’t test the Longitude yet, but I would try the Airliners profile and if you get too much roll effect just lower a little bit the Body Roll Rate Gain slider to find the sweet spot :grin:
And let me know how you feel it!

Stay safe!

Little update: I was able to name the sliders according to the effect:

Every effect is now related to a single slider. Tweaking the profiles to your liking should be much easier.
I have also reworked and tweaked the profiles a little bit.

You can download the new profiles at the same link: ZIP

Have fun and stay safe! :nerd_face:

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Hey @TELLURICO1975 been a while - real world got in the way and haven’t been on MSFS for last 3 months or so … finally got everything updated and had a chance for a little flying. Thanks so much for your work on the V3. done a few hours GA flying with the profile you posted and it’s just superb. As you commented - doubt you can get better from a 2D platform!

It’s been a long time since I was hands-on on a real airplane and this brought sensations and memories back.

New favorite place - anywhere with hills; new favorite airplane - Stearman … easy on the eyes (in VR), easy on frame rates and seems to work really well with the V3 GA profile too!

Happy flying!

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@ClayishCoast9 thank you so much for letting me know! :blush:

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Hi, guys. As @ClayishCoast9 said, life got in the middle pretty hard for me too. My partner and I have separated and Flight simming seemed the last of the priorities (going out like if I was 18 again doesn´t really help).
The dust looks like is settling slowly so I´ve spent the whole morning updating the sim and the NLR.
Thanks @TELLURICO1975 for your effort and sharing. I´m going to try your last profiles asap.

Cheers
Carlos

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@chass32 very sorry to hear that. I wish you the best and I hope things will get better soon.

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@ TELLURICO1975
there was a update from NLR platform manager. It seems they had it changed a lot. Now your profiles throwing an error and I need to use the boring default MSFS setting. Would be fine if you find a solution. I was very happy with your settings! THX in advance!

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Does this platform work with a WMR headset and it’s inside-out tracking?

Thanks for letting me know. I just updated and looking in the issues. They changed some function in the core…

@Kotti0815 fixed all profiles and added a couple bonuses in the ZIP: two special profiles tuned for the Kodiak 100 and the H145 Helicopter (without Airland FS)

DOWNLOAD: LINK

INSTALLATION: Delete the old profiles from the profile manager and import the new ones.