Hi All, I recently had a session in a MSFS based Canadair CRJ replica cockpit/simulator. Needlesss to say a fantastic experience. So I got MSFS on my sons XBOX, using the standard controller. I now have 3-4 hours on that, horrible experience.
So I am after a setup where main instruments are separated from the “scenery”, and where I have mechanical controls for basic functions (ailerons, elev, rudder, trim, brakes, throttles, flaps, gear, …)
After some research I understand it is relatively straightforeward to use pop out manager and have 2 smaller screens for main instruments and autopilot, navigation etc.
So advice needed then; a) is the pop out manager easy to restart everytime you start your sim, or does it take a new “setup” everytime you start up? And b) is there concensus on what yoke, quadrant and others mech interface to use? I look at Logitech but fear I will regret it.
It depends on what you want to fly and your budget. I fly too many things to have a dedicated cockpit but I do use Air Manager for external switches and gauges on touchscreens. Some planes would work out of the box if the gauges exist, some require coding work. As for hardware, I kept upgrading hardware until I landed on my force feedback Brunner yoke and my TQ6 throttle quadrant. Neither are cheap so that would factor in. That said, I don’t see myself ever upgrading either of those again unless they break.
Lots of people here use the alpha and bravo setup from honeycomb and enjoy those.
Alpha/Bravo user here. I’m saving my shekels for the Brunner Yoke and a TQ6+ quadrant. But overall I’ve been very happy with the Honeycomb gear.
The biggest upgrade I’ve made recently was my rudder pedals.
I had a cheap Thrustmaster unit; just sold it and invested in an MFG Crosswinds. Expensive, but a night/day difference.
I wasn’t aware you could load Popout Manager on an Xbox. Or are you going to run the sim on a PC?
Many thanks! No I am getting a PC based set up. Great advice on the flight controls incl rudders, will look into these, although the Brunner is probably out of my budget.
Any thoughts on differences between the standard pop out manager and the Air manager? I am looking for simplicity when starting up and changing aircraft, so looking to maximize flying time.
Also, I see users being positive about the Knobster together with Air manager, is that the way to go?
I like Air Manager and use it with a knobster. My advice is to figure out what planes you like to fly and see if there are instruments available or panels premade that you can use. The Air Manager website has a list of what they have and there are some available for purchase at https://experimentalsimavionics.com/, I think @Sling380 makes those so he might be able to give you some more info.
If you want to fly planes that don’t have instruments available then it’s more work with coding and design to make a cockpit setup you like. I’m in the middle of that as we speak converting some gauges to work with the Blacksquare planes.
Here is a small 15in touchscreen I’m working on now. It adds to my overall feeling of immersion.
Mission is the key to your setup. I fly a lot of different aircraft so I like my setup to be super flexible and as tactile as possible. The pedals, yoke/stick, and throttles are the center of everything, so make sure you get units that are comfortable, accurate, and suited to your mission.
Switch panels are next. There are some higher-level ones that have come out, but I’m still using the relatively inexpensive Logitech switch panel for 70% of my tactile needs (lights, gear, mags, masters, and a few others), the Logitech multi panel for autopilot and flaps (5%), a DIY button box for radio and GPS knobs (15%) and a stream deck for ancillary button/knob functionality (like ADF or transponder, kohlsman window, etc) (10%). I work on the details using SPAD.next and anytime I jump into a different plane it’s ready to go. This includes reconfiguring the throttle quadrants for single vs multi engine, turboprop, etc.
Of course, the usage ratios are all dependent on aircraft and mission type - with Cessnas and Pipers it’s almost all switch panel and button box. TBM uses the stream deck more. Hopefully that helps paint a picture.
Forgot to mention, head tracking like TrackIR is also critical for me, but that’s going to be dependent on your monitor setup and any external panels you’re using. I tend to not use external panels because I want to simulate an instrument scan in the physical layout with which it’s presented.
don’t forget an app like Axis n Ohs or Spad.Next to map all your fancy new peripherals
It depends mainly on your budget but you can get a lot of different types of kits from yokes to hotas (hands on throttle and stick) set ups based on this. Personally i prefer the flexibility of VKB STECS and Gladiator NXT but they have a few different throttle/button box combos that will give you quite a bit of flexibility based on your. I have the STECS throttle and i have it mapped wonderfully for the PMDG 737 using Spad.next.
On the note of yokes and throttles, most people look at and purchase the Honeycomb Alpha and Bravo as the price point is about as good as it gets for “entry level.” On the subject of HOTAS, theres VKB, Thrustmaster, Virpil, Winwing and MFG who command the (mostly higher end) market of hotas setups and button boxes for flight sims. you don’t need both a hotas and yoke; all planes can be perfectly configured to a usable degree with pretty much any setup you go for. Keep note that Winwing, Virpil and MFG are typically marketing to the fighter jet/DCS community but with an app like spad.next or axis n ohs you can use these devices with commercial and GA planes just as well. These two apps do have a bit of a steep learning curve but they greatly increase what you can do with physical button boxes.
And if VATSIM is something you’d like to do in the future, i definitely recommend a logitech radio panel. I’m biased against logitech to my bones but if there were two products i could depend on (so far) is this radio panel i have sitting on my desk and the two speakers currently pumping family guy from a streaming service
Spend as much as you can on the flight controls in the first instance. High quality with mainly a metal construction and contactless sensors are two key features to look for. Select those that will suit what you want to buy. I have both a high quality Fulcrum yoke and Virpil flight stick with extension but it’s not necessary to have both a yoke and stick but best if only getting one to get the one that best suits mainly what you want to fly.
You can use switch panels but I find these to be too generic. You have to remember what every button, switch etc is mapped to for each aircraft. I prefer a dedicated set of controls for each aircraft in the form of Air Manager instrument panels and a knobster. Every control is labelled and/or obvious what it it so no remembering required and the added benefit is you get the instruments too and laid out like the real aircraft panel. This is great for cockpit familiarisation. You can somewhat do the switch panel aspect of that with a stream deck but it is nowhere near as immersive and quite expensive to buy.
The point that a few posts here have already mentioned is very important and that is the need to identify your wants/needs in terms of what you intend to fly.
I recently ventured into making my own instruments for PC-based MSFS along with purchased G1000 panels from FlightSimBuilder. It is somewhat involved but quite satisfying. Here is a panel I made for GA aircraft. It works nicely for the 172, Caravan and TBM930. I use VR for more complicated planes. All of these buttons can be connected to the sim via MobiFlight, which is free open-source software. It seems complicated at first but there is great support on Discord. It took about 2.5 months to make this panel. After going this route, I will probably never buy a button box again. It is worth mentioning that Mobifligt can be used to program the Honeycomb throttle and yoke buttons and lights as well. Not sure if this helps you but wanted to throw it out as an option.
I suggest you try VR!
The goggles are expensive and you need somme horse power on your PC, but you’ll have ALL cockpits in amazing quality, and lifelike.
Beats any physical cockpit setup imo. Of course, you still need good yoke and throttle…
I’m going to try POPM and Spacedesk, and pop out the PFD and MFD onto the two iPads I have. But I can definitely appreciate the extra realism the FlightSimBuilder panels offer.
(I believe conversations should go where they lead and that any serious discussion is relevant. If that’s breaking some rule, please feel free to delete this post.)
To StanTGM,
I see your point but “immersion” is not necessarily a true simulation of reality. The truest simulation seems to me to be an accurate physical cockpit with screens anywhere there are windows in the real aircraft. Put that on a 6-DOF hydraulic platform and you have a basic professional flight simulator.
OTOH, immersion through a VR headset seems to amplify everything, from colors to movement. Plus, it gives about 20% of the population a headache.
that’s why i have both VR and physical setup. It’s really just getting the muscle memory in. You could probably put on like a gel sticky or some hockey tape or something to help distinguish certain levers. HOTAS+Button box setups are a little more friendly to tactile VR setups for sure short of 1:1 replica simpits
I have a habit of sidejacking threads, and can’t count the number of times I’ve been gently reminded by moderators in many different forums to “Please stay on topic.”
Thank you all for the wealth of advice in the thread, and certainly I will need to get some time to actually use a basic setup and go from there. Really happy to have found this forum, will report back as the basic kit is up and running!
Only kidding. Yes some good ideas in here. The rabbit hole is deep and wide though. It’s whatever works for you and you can (and will) forever be expanding and tweaking, or at least thinking about it
Another big factor for me that I’ve not seen mentioned here yet is the SPACE you have. Currently I’m squeezed onto a smallish desk but I’ve crammed a lot on and it works perfectly for me but I’m maxed out now. To add anything more I’d have to move the whole rig to another room or rejig the furniture in this one. Neither of which is really practical.
So this is me and I’m more than happy. Ergonomically it’s perfect and I can fly different types of aircraft (and drive the Juice Goose!) and everything mainly just works for it without fuss or needing to move anything physically around. I can jump into anything and be off in no time.
