AIRAC 2101 update?

Uhh. They should??? They have a literal partnership with NavBlue so I would be surprised if they don’t.

3 Likes

well i suppose there is lots of things they should … i.e. delivering promised launch-day features like multi monitor support for cockpit builders … but i digress, sorry :wink:

1 Like

They will update it, just a matter of when.

1 Like

I think a service like Navigraph or similar is the best way. Integration with these services is what is needed. This allows flexibility in the community with those that want the updated information for training and those that just want to fly without such details of realism.

2 Likes

They’re integrated with such a service though. It’s called Navblue. The sim doesn’t update it right on the same day, but I would expect it to come in the coming days, or more likely combined with the next world update.

Home - NAVBLUE an AIRBUS company

Feel free to argue about the quality of Navblue vs. Navigraph, but Navblue is the company MS/Asobo partnered with.

From CM Jayne:

“Hi everyone, the latest small update was a server-side update to the Navdata from NavBlue. This will happen every 28 days.” Small update - Navdata - Community / News and Announcements - Microsoft Flight Simulator Forums

Last NavData update was released 23 days ago: Small update - Navdata (January) - Community / News and Announcements - Microsoft Flight Simulator Forums

Based on the statement “This will happen every 28 days”, my understanding is that it is correct to say that Microsoft and Asobo will certainly implement every AIRAC update in the sim.

4 Likes

Not sure where you get that grossly incorrect piece of information. Microsobo are partnered up with NavBlue, who publish charts. They’ve updated the AIRAC data every month since the sim was launched. Originally, they did it a bit late with one of the regularly scheduled updates. In November, they started issuing them as separate updates. We’ve had 2 standalone AIRAC data updates so far. Both those were a bit late as well, but they came out.

Now, I don’t disagree. Navigraph data is far superior to what is in the sim. I’ve been using it and I wouldn’t even dream of switching back to the dumpster fire that’s the MSFS stock data. There’s so much missing data, and so much of the data that’s there is just plain wrong.

3 Likes

@Enkanath, I keep hearing about this multi monitor thing being a problem, yet at the same time I’ve seen plenty of videos of people actually spreading their view across 2, 3, and sometimes even more, displays. So maybe I’m misunderstanding something, if that is already possible, what is the “multi monitor” feature that I keep hearing about supposed to do?

We have had 2 small updates in the last three months to update the nav data, so anyone saying that it is not a thing is wrong.

Also, the Working Title team with the CJ4 has shown the the internal nav data is much more complete then what the stock avionics expose. They have said that pretty much everything is there, it is just being filtered/discarded by the stock avionics.

So before we sat bad things about NavBlue, we must consider limitations of the stock avionics in which data they show.

4 Likes

Actually, the last data set was missing about 1000 ILS approaches worldwide. And a lot of the stock data is inaccurate.

You’re correct that the stock avionics don’t use the whole data set provided, and a lot gets filtered out and discarded for whatever reason. The WT team analysis was right. The data is a lot better than what we would believe using it in the sim. It’s still incomplete and has a lot of inaccuracies. Although that’s improved with every cycle so far. The first couple of cycles, it had at best 50% of the waypoints, approaches, etc. Last month’s data was the most complete so far.

One g;aring error I notice is that my local airport is an untowered / uncontrolled field with the stock data, and only has a single ILS and a single RNAV approach. In reality, it’s controlled, has 1 ILS and 3 RNAV approaches. Navigraph data fixes that for me. And the radio frequencies in stock data don’t match real life frequencies, making real charts useless.

2 Likes

Here’s a question… I am a Navigraph subscriber. But I use it for my P3D flying… Do I simply install their beta for MSFS? That’s not any additional cost to me, correct?

How is your experience? Anything problematic in terms of using Navigraph vs the stock NavBlue stuff? How would one switch back to NavBlue if they aren’t going to use Navigraph for MSFS? I am definitely happy with it in P3D, but it’s a bit different - the stock P3D data was ancient while MSFS gets constant AIRAC cycle updates, so I am wondering if it’s worth it to use that instead in your opinion.

The beta manager looks much like the regular FMS data manager, but installs only in MSFS vs the regular one that supports different sims and tools. The Navigraph data gets installed into your community folder like any mod. If you want to get rid of it, you can uninstall from the beta manager, or delete the folder in Community.

And if you already have a subscription, it costs you nothing more. You have nothing to lose by trying it out.

I was hesitant to use it initially as well. I didn’t trust the stability of the sim. Initially, I refused to use and 3rd party mods at all. I was getting enough CTDs without adding more moving parts to the mix.

But I eventually caved. I was tried of trying to get public charts through Skyvector or NavCan and finding out so many instrument approaches were missing, frequencies were wrong, and just bad data at times. If you followed the RNAV 25 at my local airport, it would land you about 1 mile past the end of the runway into Lake Ontario.

I haven’t looked back since taking the plunge. I’ve had no bad experiences with Navigraph. If there were errors in the charts or data (I’m sure there are), it was minor enough for me to not notice it or I just haven’t come across it yet .

Now my in sim data matches real world data, which match my charts, and external tools like LNM. I’m happy.

4 Likes

I’m Happy as well with NaviGraph.
MSFS matches LNM ( both loaded with NaviGraph), and the NaviGraph Charts( Jeppesen )
match, and are CURRENT.

Without NaviGraph, there are Frequencies that are YEARS out of date, as well as outdated procedures in MSFS & Out-of-Date Approach plates (ie Sky Vector)

Yes only install the beta and enjoy

what you often see is just Nvidia surround … (or AMDs version) … that’s just combining monitors to one logical screen. That is nothing Asobo has to support, despite the higher resolution that comes with it, as its already implemented on a driver level.

Really supporting multiple monitors needs the rendering of multiple viewports (in different perspectives). That way you can place those Monitors as you like (i.e. one for your front view and two tilted 90 degrees left and right of you as “side-windows”)

NVIDIA-“Surround” is actually a really bad name for what they do - they actually expect you to set up all the Screens in a single plane of view (not angled to the viewpoint) what sounds to me like exactly the opposite of “surround”. If you position them even slightly angled the edges look really distorted to the observer.

The thing that is disappointing for most cockpit-builders is, that Asobo clearly stated msfs2020 would be released with (amongst other cockpit builder features) multi-monitor support … and all we got as their “support” is already implemented in the drivers of the GPU (what is actually just support for big but still flat resolutions).

If you want more information, there are some videos about “simultaneous multi projection” from way back in 2016 on YouTube where NVIDIA implemented support for just that … unfortunately besides VR (basically the same technique with two perspectives), developers didn’t really make much use of that since then.

1 Like

Sweet! I am gonna take the plunge and install it now. I am already a subscriber and am really happy with their data and how it works in P3D, so gonna give them a shot in MSFS too. I did hear some weirdness happens in FMS systems like in A320 - the date shown is still the NavBlue date, but the actual data should be correct.

1 Like

There’s no harm in trying it out. If you notice issues, rolling back to default NavBlue data is quick and easy.

1 Like

OK, I’m still confused. First (this is not the part I’m confused about), can you actually tag me when you are responding to me, as the forum software doesn’t always properly inform me (and not just me, anyone), and frankly I just got lucky in noticing your response because I came back to this thread.

Second, (and this is the part I’m confused about), what you’re saying is that out of the box, FS2020 has the capability (thanks to the drivers provided by the GPU makers) to display contiguous images on multiple monitors, correct? That the clamor for “multi-monitor support” is something other than that, to use an extreme example, perhaps one monitor in front with a forward view and one directly behind you with a reverse view.

Did I get that right?

And if I did, just how many people want to do something like that as opposed to what’s already there? I’ve moved to VR, so it’s a moot point for me, but I gotta think that 98.5% (a purely made up number) of people who want multi-monitor support want it to be contiguous, and the ones who want something different, being a very small number, just aren’t feeling the love from Asobo because they can’t do whatever it is they want to do.

Am I also right there?

Signed,
Still confused (:wink:)

One thing I’ve noticed recently is that there are a lot of airports (mostly places I would describe as “tier-2”, but that’s purely my own description of them) are using the wrong frequency for the tower, which is always (that I’ve noticed) the same as ground. At my “home” field of KPIE, for example, the proper tower frequency is 118.3, but they’re using 121.9 (the proper and actual ground freq) instead.

Is this somehow related to the overall topic of AIRAC data and updates? (FWIW, I’m also using Navigraph).

MSFS has no such capability. Using nVidia Surround combines panels into a single monitor. So lets say you have 3 1920x1080 monitors and use nVidia Surround to combine them in a side by side configuation, Windows sees that as a single monitor with a resolution of 5760x1080. MSFS then sees that as a single super ultra wide monitor. MSFS itself has no support for multiple monitors. It can display on a single monitor only.

One of the issues with going ultra-wide or wider in MSFS is lens distortion. The farther you get away from the centre of the image, the more stretched and distorted the image becomes at the extremities with the effect of an ultra-wide fisheye lens. Even with a single UWQHD monitor, I can see this effect at the edges of my screen. This looks terribly unrealistic. Go wider and that view becomes more terrible. This most definitely does nothing for increasing immersion.

Another issue is that nVidia Surround is designed for using monitors “flat” That means all the monitors in the array are on a flat plane with each other. This is not how multi-monitor setups are used for flight sim or other cockpit style sims such as racing, trucking, etc. Typically, the side monitors are angled at anywhere from 40-90 degrees (depending on size of the displays and cockpit style) to give you a full surround view. You want to be able to turn your head left and right and see the same view you would if you were sitting in the actual vehicle and turning your head left and right. You CANNOT get this effect using a single monitor (or nVidia Surround). This gives you a view of the front of the plane only in super ultra wide.

True multi-monitor support allows you to assign a different camera view to each monitor. Your front view is self explanatory. The left and right monitors are assigned a camera that looks as if you were turning your head in that direction. This is what MSFS is currently lacking that X-Plane does so well.

This isn’t just for that 1.5% of people as you think my friend. People are using that contiguous vew now because they have no other option. Introduce proper multi-monitor support to get rid of that ugly lens distortion at the edges of the screen and I can guarantee people will be all over that like white on rice.

3 Likes