Note that stutters are different from low fps! Low consistent fps → scales up nicely with frame gen. Stutters → always bad.
Yup.
GPU limit lowers FPS.
CPU limit can stop time in the sim momentarily.
Lower FPS feels smooth even if it looks choppy. A CPU limit looks and feels choppy.
Choppiness comes from stutters, which come from uneven delays blocking the main thread from completing (file i/o, network access, one-off calculations).
Some of these might occasionally be so short they wouldn’t delay a frame on a low frame rate, but the ones that hit me are multi-frame scenery load delays.
This is a misconception. Frame Generation actually helps when you are in a CPU Bound situation. The GPU creates (using machine learning) a new frame between the two existing frames. The CPU calculates 2 frames, the GPU delivers 3 (or more depending on the situation). That’s how the DLSS3 works, but there are softwares like Lossless Scaling software, they do it without using the hardware dedicated processor units.
The only way this can happen in my experience is when the system already had enough performance for smooth fps even without Frame Generation. That’s at least the way it has always worked for me.
On the other hand Frame Generation always came with a reduction in quality for me, so I’d rather have 25 fps with best crisp quality than 60 fps with less.
As I said before: even action movies are shot at 25 fps. IMHO 60 fps in MSFS is nothing that can actually any benefit. Graphics in a flight sim are glacial compared to an action game like CoD.
I can’t confirm that it ever worked for me like that. Frame Gen never helped smooth the experience. Only reducing the load on th CPU (LOD, traffic etc) helped with that. But I’m glad for you if you have different experiences with that
Lossless Scaling hits the CPU…
DLSS FG is a slightly different beast but still, the stutters from CPU latency translate into stutters in sim.
If time is stopped in sim, Frame Generation would just present an identical frame.
Get a head tracker or VR goggles for smooth constant head motion, and suddenly 60 fps looks a lot nicer than 24 or 30.
The plane and ground may move slowly, but your head moves quickly around the scene and the computer has to be able to keep up. Smoother motion with less latency is a big bonus here – frame generation is a mixed bag because it does introduce some latency, which is why they recommend pairing it with their latency limiters.
The whole movie comparison is a misnomer at best. Movies may be shot at a certain frame rate, but the actual exposure time is about half of the frame rate (if using the traditional 180° method of exposure calculations). This naturally adds a certain amount of motion blur into each frame that gives an appearance of smooth motion. In a game, a frame is a single snapshot in time, no different than if you took a screenshot. There is no motion blur, thus a 25 fps game will never look near as smooth as a 25 fps movie. If you only leave the camera looking straight ahead, then the visual effect isn’t that bad. As soon as you try to pan the camera, the low frame rate becomes very apparent and 25 fps may as well be a flip book.
There is a motion blur option in the sim settings, but I’ve personally not been able to see any difference when using it. The only reliable way to get smooth motion in a game is to get your frame rates up high enough that you don’t receive that flip book effect. For me it’s about 45 fps in the sim before things really smooth out.
Yeah, like I said they are different, one uses the hardware and the other uses the software. BUT it still helps, not as much DLSS3, but it helps. Also, lossless creates a lot more artifacts and image inconsistencies.
Just tried the new 24.9.1 version with AFMF2 turned on and didn’t notice anything unusual other than the typical tearing when I jerk the camera side to side. It’s noticeable on the pillars and I can see some jagged edges. Quite frankly I get this also when AFMF is turned off.
I did not notice any additional fan noise while on the welcome screen. By any chance did your low power mode setting in the experimental tab get turned off?
If I use FSR2 quality mode it really reduces the work on my gpu and cuts down on the fan mode. If you use this setting it will impact clarity a little.
I get tearing as well despite having freesync and enhanced sync turned on, and also not using FMF. My monitor is 60Hz and I’ve found setting Radeon Chill to 58 fps essentially fixed it for me. The way it was suggested to me is that even with freesync and frame caps and such on, there are times where the actual frame rate can exceed the cap or my monitor’s refresh rate, which can still allow tearing. By capping at 58 fps, any overrun is still within my monitor’s limits and won’t have tearing. I tried 59 fps, but that still allowed some tearing.
It was definitely worse in the 146, which pulls my system below a non-AFMF config fixed 60 FPS setup (57 FPS or so). I think what I was seeing was AFMF being worsened by running below the recommended 60 FPS basis.
The issue was greatly reduced, for example, in a Cessna.
I own airliners, but rarely fly them. I’m willing to concede that what I was seeing may have also been what I saw with the previous version of AFMF. I’m willing, too, to also concede, that due to the new version, I may have been “looking” more carefully. Seeing as I loaded into the 146 the very first time after turning on AFMF 2 was probably the reason I noticed this.
I ended up turning it back on and leaving it on while I just did a flight in the Tukan Trimotor. If these visual oddities were present, my brain filtered them out.
No, and of course if I do turn it off they ramp up even more so.
I don’t know if my 240 Hz display is a factor here, but there seems to be something with this new version where I’m seeing higher FPS than I did before in the menus and hence the need for Chill. I absolutely did not need Chill until this version.
EDIT:
No, I’m going back on what I said. I loaded into the JF F28 and it is really bad this tearing or artifacting or whatever it is. I fly this not too long ago and it did not look like this. This new AFMF 2 definitely behaves differently, in my case.
It is so bad that I’m going to roll back to the previous driver.
EDIT 2:
I’m seeing the same issue with the earlier driver. I’m seriously confused and disturbed by my confusion.
I do not understand why this is so bad and what changed to cause it.
I haven’t made any significant changes to the sim, so unless it is a Windows thing, I’m totally lost.
EDIT 3:
I reinstalled 24.9.1 and found the same poor graphical issues.
I noted that I could no longer turn on Chill with AFMF, when I could earlier!?
I also found that after using DDU, Windows had reset my display’s refresh rate to 60 Hz. I set it to 240 Hz and now 24.9.1 is smooth as silk.
Maybe I needed DDU all along…
Thank you, you just spared me a whole lot of writing.
But to add to it: the action scenes in Saving Private Ryan or some of the action scenes in Gladiator are a good example for how 24 fps aren’t really that smooth. These scenes were shot with a higher shutter speed, eliminating most of the motion blur. As a result these scenes are quite stuttery.
And yeah, there is a huge visual differences between 25 and 60 fps, even in MSFS. Like night and day.
Definitely, but I think we can all agree it’s easier to use a flight simulator at 30fps than playing CS at 30 fps. Unless you like air racing and those challenges with jets, 30fps is ok.
It’s not about that. Low FPS are immersion breaking, because reality doesn’t stutter.
You might want to try clearing shader cache in the Adrenalin driver and if that doesn’t work try DDU (or Revo uninstaller) to clean things up.
Dunno if you saw my 3rd edit, but it’s now working smoothly after the DDU and reinstall.
What is really weird is I was able to enable Chill with AFMF turned on before and now I cannot as they are mutually exclusive, so something was definitely screwy with my install.
Keep in mind there are global and game specific settings so you might want to look at it from that perspective.
Thanks. Didn’t know that about motion blur
For me in MSFS 30-35 fps still seems more than sufficient at least without VR. With head tracking I also didn’t notice any problems but I don’t whip my head around like flying in a dog fight. So that that seems to be more than smooth enough for me
What’s the input latency of an action movie at 25fps?