Are Forced Updates becoming an Unacceptable Norm

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After the recent “Forced Update” of Fs2020, I have been giving some deep though to the whole subject of Software updates, and really do not like the way the direction that so many software vendors are going in.

Forced (tricked into) Windows 10 updates were bad enough (Microsoft Edge – wont even go there)
Every time I pick up my Smartphone, many of the Apps are wanting to Update, but at least there, I have the option to update or not, and to find out why they should be needing an update.
FS2020 - well, as we know, it will update as soon as it starts, and you don’t get any options, (apart from previously unplugging your Internet connection)

BTW: On the subject specifically of the FS2020 update system,

Fine, I can see why it has many advantages, if all installations are kept the same, and up to date, and there are some technical reasons why this is necessary for some feature to run … but

Would it not be much better if
(a) At startup, it checked if an update was available.
(b) If so, displayed a User Option.
(1) There is an update to ________ which is optional
or
(2) There is an update to _______ which is required for key features to continue to operate.
If you do not update, then (a) (c) (d) will no longer be available to you, until such time that you update.
ie Multiplayer, live weather, etc

DO you want to Update Now ? YES ? NO

see http://www.microsoft.com/FS2020_update/0045 for details

(Hoping the link will work, and not do what this one does !!)

===========================
Carenado recently had an Update for their Cessna . The update showed available when looking at the Fs2020 content manager, and at least required action to evoke the update, (Good), but nowhere was there any information about what that update was, either there, or on their website… and once updated, it would seem there is no going back (unless you have made a previous backup).

FREE Updates are GREAT … as whenever there is an mention of having to PAY for an update, a massive revolt normally ensues across the Internet, but it would be nice to be given a choice.

Imagine buying a car, taking it into the dealer for an oil change, and then when you get it back, the Entertainment system is missing, and in its place is a small ledge !!!
You notice this and go back to ask what has happened.
If you can actually get anyone to tell you, they just say, Its an Update to a better Entertainment system.
You ask How so.
Well they say, your original one was old, now you can use your Smartphone which is a lot better – so we have given you a FREE ledge, to place the phone on.

Absurd example maybe, but not too far from the direction things are currently going.

One of my biggest annoyances:
When you start up some software, and a conditioning message pops up.

“Hold tight, we are updating your software … PERIOD)”

Which basically often means – Some nerdy inexperienced, software engineer, out the back at the company, has added a new feature that he thinks is cool, and now you are forced to have it - but you would be too stupid to understand why, so we will just do it for you … don’t worry about it … trust us - we have your best interest at hearts - don’t complain, go read the fine print in the 100 page software agreement you skipped over when you installed the software.
We can basically do whatever we want – it’s not as if you even OWN the software – what you paid for was for us, out the goodness of our heats, to all you to run it, for as long as we will allow it. Its called a LICENSE !!

No wonder so many still have PCs with XP running. You at least get what you got, and if it’s not broke, you don’t have to fix it. Mostly, when you turn it on in the morning, things are the same as yesterday … you many not be able to update much, but what was there yesterday, still works today (Mostly)…

Today, every time you turn on your PC, its like being at the Roulette Wheel in Vegas… your bets are in, and when the wheel stop spinning – is this your Lucky day, or are you going broke.

Maybe today, this is expect as the NORM… many younger people have not known any different, but I deeply miss the opportunity to use my MIND, and make a choice, and not have have everything decided for me by someone else, who I don’t even know.

<---- End Rant →

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That’s all fine and dandy but in reference to your Windows XP example… Security is the real reason for constant forced updates.

Except that Windows XP IS broken. You may not see it as a user, but every day more and more security holes are found in software that’s never going to receive another update. Every day you run that software is, as you put it, being at the roulette wheel without even knowing it.

Sure you can argue until you’re blue in the face about which is better: forced updates for security that may bring along bugs, or letting the user choose not to update and unwittingly leave themselves open to countless security issues. In general users are not going to educate themselves on the risks associated with running old software. They’re going to keep using what they know… Then one day they’ll be the victim to a hacking incident and blame Microsoft/Windows for being vulnerable. At that point it’s an image problem for the company. They can say “You were running unsupported software” but most people aren’t going to even get that far in whatever article is published. They’ll see the headline that somebody had their identity stolen because of a Windows bug and that will taint their view of Windows. So… That’s why it makes the most business sense to force updates for something like an operating system.

When it comes to Flight Sim security is certainly less of a concern… but there are still other concerns. If something on the server is changed with an update and requires a client change then you can’t have different players running on different versions.

I’ll certainly agree that Asobo’s release cadence has left something to be desired. There’s no excuse for some of the huge bugs introduced, such as not being able to adjust controller sensitivity. Undeniably, that should have been caught in QA. And even with it slipping through… They should’ve immediately fixed it in the mainline, cherry-picked it to the release branch, and released a hotfix… within DAYS, not weeks. They seriously need to look at their build+release process. But forced updates isn’t the problem.

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Software is increasingly offloading some if not large parts of its processing and features to the cloud. Fragmentation of the user base on different versions of the software poses problems to this model, not to mention multiplayer. Additionally, it complicates things like support having people on different versions of the software. Sure, if you don’t want to update your version of Photoshop or Word, I can see the argument that you shouldn’t be forced to. However with modern multiplayer always online games dependant upon cloud processing, not to mention the increasing software as a service model…you need to be on the most recent update.

Not to mention that you buy a LICENSE to the game essentially. You do not buy a physical thing that is static. You buy a license to an evolving piece of software.

By all means, unplug your PC and go back to 1995 if you’d like. I’m quite happy in the 21st century.

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Not saying you don’t have a point OP, but it’s been a decade of momentum in gaming going this direction.

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But that’s just the point, they DIDN’T fix the game, instead they created more bugs, so why shouldn’t it be a choice if we want to update to something that made it worse than before the update?

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I was not suggesting that keeping using XP was the right thing to do – just that many still do, for the reasons I gave.

Going from the security holes in XP, to W10, that reports everything you do back to Microsoft, and who know who else (Google) … to me is little different.

Just different people, “acquiring” your information.

But - thanks for being the 1st to relying to this new Topic, in the informative way you did.

When I took the considerable time to start this tread, I hoped it would proved a platform for some constructive discussion about what users wanted and why, and not just be a negative was fro people to complain. (Plenty of other places to do that )

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Yeah, I’ll admit I latched onto the Windows XP example a bit too much.

You must be new here, that’s entirely too civil and polite. You need to add in some curse words and insults about my mother :stuck_out_tongue: (Kidding, of course)

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Long post i do not even have to read.
Big NO.
The fact that many do not instal the needed updates but will start blaming companies for leaks when they get into trouble is the reason for this.
Every single one still using xp is taking huge risks.
You say if it ain’t broke don’t fix it but xp is broken to the bone and beyond fixing.
And yes i a s a programmer have gone through the days that we didn’t force updates, you wouldn’t know how many problems were solved by telling the customer to download the update…over 90%.
Your mind can’t make a decision about something you can’t see or don’t know anything about.
You trust to them to write the OS for you but do not trust them to fix it? The irony in that is so thick you can cut it with a knife.

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You got it … new here … not into typical Online Gaming (except Flight Simulators), and have been messing with those since the days of DOS.
New to this type of Forum as well, with such a cross section of different people, few of which, if any, you really have any idea who they are – not that that really matters.

But it is certainly an Education, and a treasure chest of information, especially if you are looking for material for your thesis for a PhD in Psychology :orangutan:

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A few simple words of advice for N6722C:

Don’t buy software when it is first released. If you want stability, wait. And if you want to be able to use past versions of software, check first to see whether the developers/publishers support it.

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The main problem that I have with mandatory updates is that I don’t have that much time to spare for simming. So, if you get home after work and you want to do a relaxing flight it really, really sucks when the sim is blocked by a giant update for an hour or two.

I’d rather install the update a little later when I’m done with my simming session.

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Thanks for that advice. Maybe good advice also, for all those others who are COMPLAINING about the recent update.

As an Early Release Previous of what is yet to come, I am more than satisfied to see it in its current, unfinished state.

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This is a real issue, but not from the game, it’s an issue on Steam and MS Store.

They should allow not updating, and also reverting to previous version in case you have problems with the update.

Of course online only should work in the updated version

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Well, thank God it’s only a Game !!! (ducking)

Far more serious when a “Major Aircraft Company” makes software changes, that are not fully tested, or changes that the users (Pilots) are not made aware of, and then REAL WORLD planes crash.

I know some are looking for more REALISM in MS2020, but that is going a bit too far,

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On an online platform you can’t play different versions. Technical reasons. Obvious ones. Weather servers, multiplayer servers, content servers, scenery streaming servers etc. all talking to different client versions can’t be done easily and it will be very hard to support backward compatibility.

People are already complaining about buggy updates now, without the extra work of supporting different clients.

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That kind of software must be done complying with DO-178 regulations, that makes the development process extremly slow & expensive.

Here we’re just asking what we had some years ago with disk installers, the option to choose what version of a game you wanna run.

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That is not possible for the vast majority of modern multiplayer games. As I’m sure that someone has already said, many functions these days are server-side. You can’t have client-side mismatch.

To give you a concrete example, let’s say Counter Strike Global Offensive is on version 2.0. Some crafty person finds an exploit that allows them to aimbot all the other players. Valve releases a patch to fix this exploit and now the game is version 2.5. Allowing unpatched 2.0 (aimbot susceptible) players to mix with 2.5 version players would be unacceptable.

What would be helpful is if the patches could be posted as stand-alone downloads in addition to automatic through the patcher. Since Microsoft is the publisher, it would make it consistent with the practices for windows updates, you can download these automatically through Windows Update, or download the individual KB patches from their website.

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You are preaching to the converted :slight_smile:

It was so great to be able to pull out the old FSX Disks, and re-install; FSX again on a modern, fast gaming machine, if only to contrast & compare the advances that FS2020 has made.

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I think eventually things will settle down and I would think they would get on a schedule something like I-racing. There are 4 patches a year. They are scheduled. So everyone knows when they are coming, and after the releases, there are hot fixes as required, and they happen quickly. That’s a good process, it allows the dev team a proper planning and testing process/timeline, and also satisfies the customer generally.

I agree with others that on a sim platform you shouldn’t or can’t have people running on different versions, especially racing. Eventually I think they’ll get down to a set pattern here, right now it’s so early they’re running around with their hair on fire, and maybe some more thought should have been into the patching process during development. Certainly there should have been a process in place for hotfixes, the panel issue being a prime example of why you need hot fixes to patches.

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I am sure that someone has already said, that the possible result of choosing not to update, at any particular update time, might be to loose (have revoked), the ability to play the game Online, with those Online features now being non-operational.

In effect, the only ONLINE feature of your installed sim, might just be to UPDATE