Been holding off. Here's what I think now

I’ve been holding off making a full assessment of this until they’d had a chance to look at the community feedback and release a patch. Now that we’ve seen the changelog (such as it is), I think I’ve decided to stop agonising over this game like a fool.

I spent the final few days prior to the release of FS20 just absolutely buzzing with excitement. I’d watched all of the videos they devs released, I’d watched the youtube influences doing their thing, I was hyped. Absolutely hyped. I seriously considered buying the deluxe premium rich person version, even though it would probably put me into my overdraft! Heh. Life on disability kind of sucks, folks.

I think the reason I’m in such a mood about this whole release is because it’s got glimpses of how jawdroppingly good this thing could have been. When it works, it looks stunning. The aircraft feel so much more alive than in other games/sims, with the only better examples being the absolute peak of study level aircraft. You load up the sim and you see all the wonderful weather effects, the photo terrain, the building placements, the photogrammetry areas… and it’s gorgeous! I’ve never seen anything like it!

But the game don’t work right, does it?

I’ve been contending with endless stutters that really shake me out of the immersion. I get a good framerate (always at least 30, usually closer to 50), but for no apparent reason, and in spite of every tip I’ve tried, it just won’t do any better. My first five flights were ruined by, in order - checklist bug (frozen interface) (how’s that for a first impression?), stutters, missing airport, suicidal autopilot, ugly scenery issues.

The autopilots just don’t work properly on some aircraft, and some aircraft even have controls missing. They even acknowledged this in the original release notes, saying that it would be patched in! Guys, you’ve been in beta/alpha for months. You shouldn’t still be patching in planned functionality of the base product. What are you doing?!

And where’s the documentation? The lessons? This isn’t an easy type of game to get into, and the existing tutorials are woeful. If this is aimed at newbie pilots, then give them a chance to learn.

Then there’s the features that just flat out don’t work. Live weather gives us no wind. Live traffic gives us performance issues and missing aircraft. The manual caching just doesn’t seem to work at all and is inexplicably slow.

Apparently I’m one of the lucky ones, looking at how many people struggled to even get the thing to download properly. Really the performance issues are the worst thing for me overall. It means that I can’t enjoy the stuff that is actually in the game.

And then we get today’s dev update. We see the release notes, and we find that almost nothing has even been acknowledged. I think that’s the annoying thing, right? The lack of communications and acknowledgement that problems exist? It feels like they’ve dumped a half baked product and run off to do another round of crash-grabbing with the Xbox release. You can say I’m being cynical, but remember, we are talking about Microsoft, and we have no indications to the contrary. The games industry has become a cesspit of greedy, shameless, antisocial cash grabs, and it’s a miracle that this thing didn’t launch with day-one microtransactions and lootboxes. When talking about the games industry, assume the worst of intentions, because you’ll usually be right.

But yeah, honestly, some comms (more than a weekly dev update) would have made things feel a lot less like they’d dumped game and ran off to do something else.

But I will remind you: this game has been in closed alpha and beta for months. They even got telemetry off FSX users to develop this one. It looked like the devs really wanted to make something good and it looked like they were putting in the effort. If the devs do still have the passion to make a good sim, that’s awesome, but could we please hear about it? Maybe even see some fixes?

Anyway, getting upset over a product that I paid for not working as advertised is, I think, a reasonable thing, but at this point it’s too late to refund, and I really should just move on. Specifically, I’m moving on to FSX, cos at least that one mostly works.

Blah blah blah, announcing my departure, etc etc. See you in 6-12 months I guess. :expressionless:

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A short reply as its late, one thing that you said that caught my eye was the learning part.

Its been a while since i did any flight simming, and am very rusty.
I was really hoping for some tutorials like those from FSX, where you could take a test and get a certificate for passing…nothing like that in here.

Shame as I was looking forward to relearning

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Works great for me, from install to now. The loop of endless complaints with MSFS never stops. Sticking to FS2002 when ACOF dropped, sticking to ACOF when FSX dropped… heck there are still repaints being published for FS98. RIDICULOUS. But you do you. I reckon you’ll join FS20 when the next one releases. Gotta keep the cycle going. Byeee.

ACOF worked.

Just trying to understand how make cash grabs more social oriented…failed.
BTW lootboxes for this title is a brilliant idea. Just imagine - you got a box with “787 AP upgrade” title and your AP is working now. Or box titled “Winds boost” - oopss and you have real winds in real weather… Magic… :rofl:
/s

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I can empathize with your sentiment. I think I had felt the same excitement and let down had I not been part of the alpha. I was super happy with it the first weeks, almost sure that most of the issues would be solved by launch, that they would include replay, fix the vehicles getting into the runway, the weather, the ATC, the AI traffic, the AP, the LOD, the sensitivity, the airliners handling, the lights…but as updates were released I realized that they were not trying to appeal to my “kind” so by launch I already knew that in its current state it wasn’t for me.

Hope to see you back in 3 months tops. I’ve no doubt they’ll make this the game you dreamed it would be, lets just hope its sooner not later! You’re right about the AP that has been on their radar for ages and i agree about the communication - a little reassurance would go along way with some people having difficulties.

Hopefully that 737 that’s being developed will be out soon, i think that might be more your thing and could fix many of the issues you’ve struggled with :slight_smile:

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Well composed Joanne!

I’m really having fun with this sim though. But a lot of points you make are true. I now also deeply hate those youtubers, with their fancy videos, never ever mentioning you might crash to the desktop on landing, that you cannot hotplug your joystick or even turn on your bluetooth headset halfway between Paris and Hong Kong, when you might really need it for some relaxing music, because the AI-copilot is trying to kill you (overspeed, overspeed, overspeed).

Were they assuming it would all be fixed on release day?

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Exactly what i had in mind. all the misfortunes i am experiencing with this sim: unable to install onto an external hd even assigned default for new install, not recognizing old saitek x52 properly, sensitivity even keybd controls. But…
In the end still dealing with MS and its cohorts for us to drop hard earned $$$ hoping to receive good software. again i say vaporware promise. what i felt so really bad, paying for something that i can’t have in feel on my hand. i was kinda hoping an fs2020 box would take the space i prepared in my cabinet of MS FS collections.
i still dream the day it would work better for me and fly into the sunset at least in sim with the real weather…

Apparently you don’t have 3-10 second stutter freezes. Not everyone is that lucky. If the thing actually would run instead of being a Powerpoint, it would be a blast.

BTW had massive installation issues as well and literally had to Alt+F4 myself through the process countless of times until it finally even let me enter the menu for the first time. Never ever seen such a mess in my whole life. And I’ve installed non-GUI Linuxes without actually knowing what I did before…

On a side note, the only thing that ever worked in FSX is the AppCrash mechanism, and it still works amazingly well today. Should have never been released…

Yes the simulator should not have been launched in that state and blah blah blah. But this is now past unfortunately. Now we have to be patient because these bugs are not all going to be resolved in one patch. I would say that maybe in two or three months most of the users’ reports/requests will be fixed and/or implemented. Until then we should expect at least more talking and communication between the devs and us.

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All fair points. Huge shame to see someone basically giving up, though. I’ve just spent what’s left of my life savings ordering a new mobo and cpu, so I guess I’m in for the long haul, myself…

I think there are some urgent psychological issues here, mostly of MS/Asobo’s own making. Half the people in any forums these days are narcissistic jerks, who feel personally affronted whenever something doesn’t immediately work out to their satisfaction. I’ve been a dev for 40 years and have spent the past ten of them working on my latest simulation game. Frankly I’m absolutely DREADING releasing it because of the way people react to software these days.

But we should all know this by now, and the best antidote is to hold people by the hand and say ‘there, there’ a lot. And also be personal - be a real person, with hopes and fears and moods (just like Ben at Laminar, over in the X-Plane world). Stay away from the corporate look. Which Asobo may think they’re doing but they’re not.

Just acknowledging the problems would help enormously. And yet in a sense they’ve done the opposite of it. One of the bugs in the ‘top priority list’ is about some trivial gameplay feature, which rather implies that they don’t see 30-second stutters as nearly important enough to make the top ten.

Some of these things come down to cultural differences, I think, and hence people misunderstanding each other. People from certain nations always seem to yell a lot on forums - it’s just how their culture works and we have to see it for what it is, not what it would mean in our own culture. Equally, everyone I’ve known from Microsoft has been a good person at heart but ends up somehow reflecting the aggressive, almost military corporate culture there. Even the confusion about whether they would release a patch today, or merely inform us of the release date of the patch may have been a simple language issue. As is the confusion about the “restart to update” line in the content manager or whatever it’s called - that might just have meant “when you need to update this bit, the way to do it (unlike the other assets) is to restart the program” for all I know. We all need to learn to be more cosmopolitan, I guess.

As a result, this forum is a disaster, in part because there’s no easy way to distinguish hard-core simmers from people who just thought this was going to be this week’s cool game and now wish they’d bought something else.

What I’m saying is that somebody at MS needs to get a grip. Deal with the psychology of the situation. Otherwise it’ll get out of hand, everyone on the dev team will get despondent, MS will pull back from their commitment to the product, and we’ll all end up with exactly the damp squib we probably deserve, rather than the skyrocket we’d been praying for.

I’ve no idea why they released when they did - it’s clearly not ready, although of course this was the first opportunity for zillions of people to try to break the servers. The NDA may have created a bit of a No Man’s Sky debacle, too, in the sense of not letting any of the YT influencers prepare us for some upcoming teething problems.

Just get a grip, Microsoft. It can be turned around. I have X-Plane I can go back to when I get annoyed, but I really want this one to work out - it has huge potential for us low-and-slow flyers. So I’m sticking with it for now.

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Seriously FSX?. Did anyone tried the very first version of FSX? when it got released. It suffers a LOT! in performance. I used spend hours in tweaking the cfg file in the sim to squeeze out FPS to make it playable, when it got released. Then eventually a tweaking software got released too.

Slowly the MS team fixed the issues over the time. All of you guys playing FSX now have no idea how the sim is when it is launched back in 2006. Same thing with FS2004, FS2002 etc… All these sims needed time to iron out.

Some say this sim is based on already optimized FSX, then why so many issues. Well the base may be the same, but the underlying Direct X framework is changed from 10 to 11, which requires a LOT of re-coding to render those beautiful graphics. Plus bing map integration, i am still wondering how they are streaming terrain data this much fast! in GB’s. And if you don’t know FSX world is FLAT!. So here you need to re-model the entire world (Round) from the scratch. With whole world matching the exact latitude and longitude coordinates.

Plus weather system with noise based volumetric clouds. AI Generated autogen!, wondering how many days/years they took to compile a machine learning model to do this!. There are so much more work these guys have done here.

So yes i would definitely say it is a brand new HUGE project and it deserves it’s time to settle down. The problem here is most of the people look at the sim only from what you see from your monitor. Nobody ever wonders how did they achieved that! and imagine what more they can do in the future. When people start to see that, im sure this sim will surprise them, like it did for me!.

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you can go back to FSX for a while to give the developers time to get it together.
I know they will make this the BEST flight sim ever.

I read your comments and wonder, What is you computer setup?

Very well stated! Early on in interviews Asobo went out of their way to assure us that this wasn’t going to be a repeat of the past. They were going to go the extra mile to make sure hardcore simmers had a new home for the next 10 years. Even in interviews post-release they continue to talk about how important the community is to them, yet their actions have not matched their words in any way. I don’t know Europe well enough to know if this is a cultural boundary or difference as you had mentioned, but you’re spot on in saying they need to stray away from the corporate look.

We NEED some kind of developer presence here. Someone intimately familiar with a decent chunk of the workings of the sim and is willing to answer tough questions. The X-Plane developers have done a pretty good job of this through their blog, posting lengthy articles and more importantly following up on questions and comments on the articles. Blizzard developers show up on their public forum from time to time and interact with the community, answering questions about game balance and what not. Many developers release very detailed patch notes so we know exactly what has changed.

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Are you serious? When did it work?

Nothing else to say. Good luck and maybe see you in 6-12 months.

Excatly that is the issue. Today they release some preliminary patchnotes, and regarding performance optimization there’s one single point:

The performance of the title has been improved when the Display name plate option is set to active

When I read that I was just like “Really?”. But that perfectly fits to the Zendesk tickes immediately being thrown off with the standard “Have you tried turning it off and on again?” type reply and set to solved. One gets the impression they don’t even listen at all.

I did, and it’s still as awfwul as it ever has been which is why I said they should’ve never released that. FSX still crashes on finals, and I can’t even get 20fps out of it even at low-medium settings which is outright pathetic. Since it’s long been discontinued and we’ve got the new and awesome one now, I couldn’t care less. I’d never even consider going back to that. The only thing that’s better there is that it has a Mooney right out of the box.

Again, that statement wasn’t about FS20 which still has the chance to improve after all. And after seeing countless of “Tech Alpha Insiders” in the Dreadful Performance thread state they had no problems during Alpha and Beta at all, getting literally butter smooth performance, but now can’t run the release version without massive stutters, I just feel like there’s something that went wrong which happened in the last minute and can be turned back so it will run as it was supposed to. And I can imagine they just don’t want to admit their fault now. Wouldn’t be surprised if the issues would be gone next week with the update, and on top of that I’d be perfectly happy with the result, but not with the devs’ comms.

Long story short: I’m glad the new FS is here, it’s really awesome, but it needs some polishing as every piece of software. I’m just disappointed of the stutter issue and how reports of that seem to end in the void. Once we’re past that issue however, it’s gonna be a great time for sure :slight_smile:

I can perfectly understand that some people might have less patience or willingness to deal with the issues and in result take a step back. I do see that every day on a certain modern milsim. I do wish for them to have a much better experience though when they get back.

PS: Yesterday I received another forced update from MS, which was the 2004 update. Of course right amidst the set “Active Hours” including the reboot request. What a mess. Had to waste hours solving issues including suddenly broken 3rd party software because it not being supported anymore afterwards and there’s still a bunch left that I couldn’t get rid of, especially some cases of “Alzheimer’s”, but well, that’s what Windows 10 is known for anyway. It’s literally an Open Alpha and will never get past that to be frank.

Go for 2004 update. It has a new feature called Hardware Accelerated GPU Scheduling. You can find it under Win10 Settings ->Graphics Settings along with the latest Nvidia/AMD display drivers. Currently your GPU waits for instructions to be given by the CPU. Therefore if your CPU is limited then there is not point on what kind of GPU you run. In this case even RTX 2080 and GTX 1080 will give you the same performance, since it cannot run faster than your CPU. This is called CPU bottleneck. BUT!. If you turn this control on, the OS will let the GPU to perform it’s task on its own without depending on the CPU to give instructions, thus improving the overall performance of your system. Try turning it on if you see Limited By CPU message on the screen when you enable Display FPS option from the Dev Menu within MSFS2020. Hope it helps someone who is not aware of this feature.

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