Beginner questions on SU9 turbulence and right roll (ignoring dead zone?) - Xbox Series S

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#1

Hi all,
as I mentioned in my presentation post, I’m a complete beginner and I’ve been enjoying FS2020 on my Xbox One Series S via Game Pass for a while, albeit pretty much just to look around the world and enjoy the view, not so much to get a “realistic” experience… if anything, because I would end up crashing the plane pretty quickly.
I did however do my homework: I completed all the in-game training, read up and watched videos, and so on. I’m not always perfectly clear on what I’m doing or supposed to do, at least I’m not leaving a trail of destruction behind me if I mess up!
Still, I have quite a few questions and I hope that someone can share some tips on what I can do to learn more. To be clear, even though it’s going to make many people’s hair stand up in shock :), I’m actually fine with it being a glorified arcade game rather than a full-featured sim.

I’ve mostly settled on the 172, for a couple of reasons. First, it’s got everything in the same place and for a newbie like me, that’s quite handy. The live map on the second screen is also nice. I obviously have no idea how to use the G1000 yet (I’ve downloaded the official manual though) but I’ll get to it. Second, and this is going to sound silly — honestly, most of what I’ll say will sound silly to experienced pilots — is that it has a single control for the throttle, which is far less confusing than separate power and RPM levers like some other planes do. It’s also relatively slow, which is great for my main use case of sightseeing and daydreaming.

My most pressing question is about the recent SU9 update, which I understand has added a new turbulence system that’s making many people unhappy. I’m also not thrilled about it (to say the least) and I’m not sure why it feels like the turbulence just stops the moment I get past a coastline. I’ve tried a few flights from LIBP runway 04 as I’m very familiar with the area and I know all the landmarks, and it’s all bumpy until I’m past the city. As soon as I’m on water, it becomes smooth as silk. Is that how it actually is in real life? It doesn’t seem to be a matter of altitude, because turning back towards the land at 3000 or 4000 ft will immediately make the ride all bumpy again right past the beach. Is this all part of the same turbulence features that others are also complaining about, or am I missing something? I’m pretty sure it wasn’t like this before.

I’ve tried several combinations to try and get the air to be a little more still, the way it used to be. I removed the wind layer from the default Clear Skies template, and it didn’t make much of a difference. I tried flying in the early morning in January, and it wasn’t that different either. It did feel a bit calmer at night, but that’s a bit disappointing if your goal is “hey look I can see $landmark”. Besides, at this point I’m not even sure if that was just an impression of mine.
I also tried setting the flight model to Legacy and dropping everything to zero, which IIRC is labeled “FSX”. Not an ounce of difference, none at all. What’s that setting even for?

Another thing I’ve noticed is that, for some reason I am completely confused about, the 152 seems somewhat more stable, even at relatively low altitudes on hilly terrain. I don’t get it at all, shouldn’t it be even more susceptible to turbulence?
I’ve read that the 172 has been tweaked a lot in the latest update, but is it this related to it? I mean (wow I really am a newbie, aren’t I), are the whole turbulence thing and the changes to the 172 at all related? Or are they separate things that just happen to interact with one another?
I’m wondering because the 152 does seem to honor the “auto rudder” assistance setting, whereas the 172 does what you would normally expect without it, i.e. it pulls left when you throttle up, even with the setting on.

Also, and I don’t know whether this is another random coincidence or something has indeed changed in SU9, I noticed that the plane tend to roll to the right. And again, this is especially true with the 172 (and other planes I’ve tried) , yet much less so with the 152.
I checked the sensitivity settings and the graph does indeed show that my left stick has a tiny bit of play right in the middle, but it’s well within the default dead zone, and in fact the yoke doesn’t move at all when I’m in cockpit view.
I even tried creating a custom controller profile and increased the dead zone to a whopping 50%, but had no change at all.
I have the “infinite fuel” setting on so it’s not a matter of one side weighing more than the other (that was my first thought), and it starts happening as soon as I’m in the air anyway. I even tried a dual propeller plane — the name escapes me — thinking that it wouldn’t do that, and it happens exactly the same way. (In hindsight, I’m not even sure whether two propellers would help with that, or make it worse.) Also, disabling auto rudder to see if it was overcompensating showed no difference at all.

It may be an issue with my controller, but it works perfectly fine otherwise (no drift in the menu, etc.) and it’s just a weird coincidence that it started doing this with SU9; unless, of course, SU9 is ignoring the dead zone setting for some reason. Has this happened to anyone else?

All in all, it just feels like everything’s become suddenly more complicated. If anyone has any suggestions on something I haven’t thought about that might make it a bit easier, I’d wholeheartedly appreciate it. The way it is now may be great for real pilots or serious simmers, but those of us who just enjoy fooling around and don’t even have a proper joystick are just frustrated by how it all changed overnight.

Thanks in advance to anyone who’s taken the time to read all this, and even more so to anyone who’ll reply!

#2

I think the developers are considering adding a way to turn off the new turbulence simulation.

I rarely get any right roll in the C172S G1000. Mostly left roll, and more when the nose is pitched up high.

Edit / Update:

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#3

Thats pretty much how wind is - over the sea is calm, cliffs give a sudden area of turbulence, large cities can also do plus mountains etc. The trouble is I think they have over-done the effect strength.

Previously If I wanted a casual sightseeing trip i would just delete the lower wind layer in the in-flight weather menu and all signs of wind would be gone. Now, to do that I have to make sure to delete the wind layer, set time to very early in the day like 6am and maybe also turn the temperature down as well - this does fix the buffeting mostly but its more to remember and if you want maybe mid-day sun you can’t do it all.

I love the 172, great plane.

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#4

Nice, i’d like to see a turbulence effect slider added that has a mid-point of “Realistic” but ranges from “Zero” to “Unrealistic”

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#5

Great idea!

#6

Where you do often get turbulence is in the area where land meets ocean.
Air over land, and air over the sea, are often at quite different temperatures, and this can make for some interesting air currents when the two mix, which causes turbulence.
This may be what you are seeing as well.

#7

Yeah, it can be a lot of real world things so a ton more report details is needed for me to have an opinion. Personally, I’m loving SU9. I actually got something that felt a bit like moderate turbulence for once and where I’ve been getting turbulence has been very reasonable so far.

I haven’t tried much in the way of non low level VFR flying since SU9 so I’m only speaking about that, it is the only kind of flying I ever did.

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#9

Yes, this happens in real life. Hence the debates.

The sun heats the air, the ground and water at different rates. As a result the properties of the air are very different. Updrafts of air due to heating are called thermals. Hence why your nighttime flights are silky smooth.

Turbulence is only partially related to wind. Getting rid of the wind will not get rid of turb. This is in real life.

Yes, updates were made to the 172. I would fill the fuel tanks to maximum and add your real weight to the plane. That should give it more “weightiness,” like the real thing. It will feel heavier and more stable.

Regarding G1000, understand the principles, but don’t get too wrapped up in the manual. The sim version of it deviates from the real thing. You should also get the G1000 Nxi addon (free) from the marketplace.

I’m a pilot and airplane engineer. I got my start playing MSFS for DOS. Welcome to flight simulator!

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#10

The turbulence is quite realistic compared to real life experience at the same locations and conditions I’ve tested. I do get a smooth ride in the morning / evening and night so I’m not able to reproduce that. Usually air is smoother over water, especially this time of year where land is warmer than the sea, it will cause stability. Vice versa, advection of cold moist air from sea over land causes instability as that cold air heats up when in contact with the warm land and starts to rise causing turbulence. In summary, a clear windless day this time of year is very rarely a smooth ride during middle of the day.

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#11

I haven’t yet flow under SU9, but the roll tendency is a function of the throttle setting. Higher settings make it roll left (which I suppose is what you typically have when pitchting up).

In cruise, by reducing the throttle a little you should be able to find the sweet spot where it (almost) stays level when you let go of the yoke and pedals.

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#12

Yes, left yaw/roll is what I expect. Right roll when auto-rudder is enabled, I do not. That is apparently what the OP is experiencing. This may be a bug with the AI auto-rudder assist feature (for example I found a related issue with the AI auto-trim causing some aircraft to pitch nose down into the ground).

#13

Yes high throttle settings causes a left roll due to torque effect and left yaw due to slipstream effect. Pitch (actually angle of attack) only affects P-factor which causes a left yaw, when left uncorrected this will cause a left roll of course but the primary effect is yaw.

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#14

Interesting. Thanks for clarifying.

#15

A really good place to read and understand all aspects of flying in the FAA site. Yes it is a little USA centic but the principles apply to anyplace in the world. A lot of commercial book sellers just remove the covers of these books and sell them for inflated prices.

#16

I fly the C172 almost exclusively in the sim, and it does seem the left roll tendency has increased dramatically with SU9, to the point where it’s really annoying. I’m on an Xbox, and constantly tapping right on that little controller joystick gets old pretty fast. I’ll have to try the suggestion to fiddle with the throttle to find a sweet spot where it’s more or less stable.

I’ve found the G1000 / G1000 NXi to be best learned in small bites. There are many good videos on YouTube explaining its functions. I especially like the channels “Kip on the Ground” and “Huddison,” but there are many that are quite good.

#17

I created a poll regarding this during the SU9 beta, and a huge majority voted that they wanted this annoying behavior :laughing: (granted the wording in my poll was somewhat flawed)

Extended flaps also seems to add to the rolling tendency, so definitely keep them retracted. Lower the engine RPM to around 2300 or so, and avoid pitching the nose up during cruise.

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#18

Thanks, I’ll keep that in mind.

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#19

Found this topic to reply the same way. The 172 G1000 is basically unflyable for me in SU9, and I’ve put 150+ hours into this plane with MSFS 2020 over the past 18 months so I’m pretty familiar with how it should fly.

3kt winds in SU9 feel like 30kt winds in SU8. I get up in the air in the Clear Skies preset and I bounce around like I’m in a wind storm. It’s to the point that I can’t even take my hands off the yoke to take screenshots anymore because it’s just so erratic. If I change the weather to Stormy I get the same result even tho the two wind meters are different. Even the auto pilot struggles, bouncing up and down and watching the trim go from 0% to 10% to 5% to 10% to 0% in the course of 10 seconds.

If I take my hands off the yoke, I immediately pull to the RIGHT (not left), and I’m at a 60 degree right roll after 15 seconds of not correcting it. It’s a huge hassle and basically ruined the 172 for me.

Note that all of this worked fine in the 172 in SU8. I did 85% of a round the world flight in the 172 using SU6 ro SU8, and now I can’t complete it in SU9 because the flight dynamics are so messed up.

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#20

Do you also notice the wind indicator on the G1000 spins about 360 degrees randomly too ?

It really is messed up, yes we can have thermals but this heavy turbulence is just wrong in my view, turbulence as far as i know comes when pressure and airflow changes rapidly, thermals when cold air meets hot air - over coastlines, large cities, hills/valleys etc - in that case why do i suffer it so much flying over the very flat rural landscape of parts of England?

#21

Your theory about thermals is a bit off. Some areas absorb more of the suns energy than others (darker farm fields compared to lighter fields), over flat ground it can still be bumpy as hell. I haven’t noticed anything unusual turbulence wise, It’s quite plausible in my opinion.

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