Best GA addon for "flying by numbers"

After my frustrating experience with the last 40th anniversary addons, with several bugs and performance inaccuracies, very high rates of fuel consumption, etc, and while I still wait for an A2A Cessna, I’m looking for an addon that without being perfect, you can planning your fuel consumption based on the performance tables and be able to use them during the flight.

As far I know, the best options are Blackbird C310 and FSW 414W but I want to ask you about Kodiak, Sting S4 and the classics DC6 and Boeing 237 (I know these two aren’t GA but I love the classics), or any other that I’ve forgotten.

As lastly I been saying in several post, my sin is to be a prickly “flying by numbers” simmer. I love follow the real procedures and taking care of the engine based on the POH recommendations.

Regards

The Kodiak is likely “still” one of the best going around. It did get the seal of approval by Daher (current owners of the Kodiak series) and they actually helped with the development process alongside real Kodiak pilots. It’s pretty much an officially licenced product and in saying that, you really need to get the numbers fairly accurate. It’s designed for the WT NXi in mind so the glass panels become more accurate to the real deal. You can blow the engine if started wrong apparently, (I’ve never done it admittedly, even on purpose to test it out) yet I have blown the engine on climb out, maybe overboosting or something, not sure. The package is insane with the configurations you can choose.

I’m currently flying the Kodiak 100. Its start up checklists are very detailed. Too detailed if you ask me. It even has check propellor area before starting. Generally I don’t use the checklist. I know how to start it, which is good enough for me without the nerdy in-depth detail. If you’re looking for such detailed checklists, for example, then the Kodiak 100 is one you might want to consider. It flies very nicely. I can’t vouch for the fuel consumption according to external factors. All I need to know is the faster I go, the more fuel I use. :slightly_smiling_face:

The Kodiak is far from being accurate or “the best” in GA aircraft in the sim.
It is built and marketed as a STOL aircraft yet cannot perform this role due to issues with the flight model that started in early 2022 with updates that broke it, and still have not been fixed. If you just cruise around doing GA VFR sightseeing you will likely not notice these issues as you don’t go anywhere near the STOL flight envelope, but if you try to use it for it’s real purpose, STOL, you will be quickly educated as to how bad the Flight model is.

The devs are still trying to fix this.
Use the Milviz Porter or Caravan (Modded) instead if you want a reliable predictable modern turboprop for STOL work.

****Copy/Paste support thread from SWS discord on the still (all of 2022) broken FM issue with the Kodiak 100.

Pitch sensitivity.
Captainbob767
OP
— 20/10/2022 19:59
A discussion on Avsim mentioned the pitch sensitivity with the Kodiak compared to other aircaft, which I also experience. We are wondering if they plan on reducing that in one of the next hotfixes?
Alex Vletsas — 20/10/2022 20:06
We already reduced it a lot with 1.3.3. Does it still feel sensitive?
Captainbob767
OP
— 20/10/2022 23:10
I had dialed back the pitch sens awhile back, I will set it to what have in some other GA aircraft, and fly it tonight and see.. There were two people this morning on Avsim, that mentioned that they thought it was too sensitive. Not sure if they ran the updates yet.
Martino — 21/10/2022 05:08
I’m using 1.3.3 and I’m using a Brunner FFB CLS-E Yoke. And even with 1.3.3 I have slight problems to control the liftoff at the start of the plane. There is a point around the takeoff speed where the plane does not leave the runway smoothly. At this point the nose goes up and I have to push down the yoke to hold the pitch. In most other planes, the plane leave the ground smoothly. At this point the plane is also very instable in pitch. I hope this description can help to tear down this problem.
Alex Vletsas — 21/10/2022 05:18
I think it has to do with the AP trimming up as soon as you cross 35kts and screwing up your trim.
BlazinMonk — 21/10/2022 16:04
I think the auto trim seems very aggressive. Empty weight: When transitioning climb to cruise, trim is still set for takeoff and it’s going up past VNE and nose down without elevator input. During approach phase, full flaps and trim set nose up (more up than take off) I landed the Kodiak with 85% power on and she still wanted to fall out of the sky. At no phase of flight did I ever have nose down trim and I struggled to keep my altitude.
Alex Vletsas — 21/10/2022 16:12
I’ll take a look at it for the next update. It won’t come as quickly as the hotfixes though. We’re doing flaps work, so that takes time.
Zippy The Pinhead — 21/10/2022 17:11
I think you should release a hotfix with the Flap Auto Trim system disabled, until you can get it to work properly.
At the moment it’s actually “dangerous” and a distraction, as much as that can be in a simulator, and is not helping at all. It might not be true to life with it not in there, but if it was malfunctioning like this in real life all planes would be grounded in an instant.
Alex Vletsas — 21/10/2022 17:21
It is not as simple as making a hotfix for it. It has to be re-tuned for the new flap performance. Disabling it could make the effect better or worse.
SWR120 — 21/10/2022 18:28
Not very sure, but I think there is a fuse for the electric trim. Pull that fuse would probably the temporary solution?
Zippy The Pinhead — 21/10/2022 18:39
No, you still need manual trim control, and the AP needs it too. This is a new system that was added to simulate the Flap Auto Trim system, but it’s a little buggy atm. Automatic Trim System - Kodiak 100 Series Information Manual [Page 371] | ManualsLib
ManualsLib
Automatic Trim System - Kodiak 100 Series Information Manual [Page …
Kodiak 100 Series Manual Online: Automatic Trim System. To compensate for pitch trim changes when varying flap position, an automatic trim system is provided. The automatic trim system consists of an electric pitch trim actuator, an airspeed switch, the flap position potentiometer, the…
Image
Captainbob767
OP
— 22/10/2022 00:21
Did a couple of flights today, and I think the pitch sensitivity seems normal.
Th3PerfectOn3 — 22/10/2022 08:49
I did few fight yesterday and it seam to be to excessive to me.
Martino — 23/10/2022 18:47
Tested also with this pitch trim fuse out and it’s the same problem. At around 60kts the plane pitch up too much at the slightest movement of the FFB Yoke. There is no feeling the planes get’s “light” on the ground and leave the ground smoothly like all other planes.
Alex Vletsas — 23/10/2022 19:02
Which plane, wheels or float?
Martino — 23/10/2022 19:21
At the moment I’ve only the wheels version.
It is a little bit better if I trim forward. But it’s hard to find the right trim spot, that this behaviour is better.
Alex Vletsas — 23/10/2022 19:43
Trim forward is a requirement on take off.
Captainbob767
OP
— 24/10/2022 01:01
On the Float version, I find that just a few clicks of forward trim produces a nice smooth lift off.
SWR120 — 24/10/2022 05:33
On what loading, TOW?
Rene Feijen — 25/10/2022 06:21
same for me
(without the Brunner..)
After leaving the runway the plane pitches up and kind of jumps in the air. I have takeoff trim nose down.
I have flown the Kodiak a lot, and learnt the developing 1000Nxi in it, but at the moment I find it difficult to do stable takeoff and approaches with it.
Captainbob767
OP
— 25/10/2022 06:35
What speed are you rotating at?
Rene Feijen — 25/10/2022 06:36
I feel very stupid but dont know by heart (I am at different PC), but at speed were the default R is…
(20221018.exe installer version)
and my forward trim is at the 9 o clock position, so 45 degr forward
Th3PerfectOn3 — 25/10/2022 12:44
I’m not sure if it’s kodiak or maybe live weather, but after the airplane update I find it very difficult to do stable approaches as well. Definitely things got harder in general control department for me. Also seams like trim Input on my HC alpha has a greater value it’s hard to stabilize it now. Not that’s it was easy before, but it jumps up and down a whole lot more.
Captainbob767
OP
— 27/10/2022 01:03
For elevator trim I use about 5 degrees forward. after the last update. I rotate at around 65-70 knots.
Rene Feijen — 27/10/2022 02:50
Thnx will try!
Rene Feijen — 27/10/2022 14:31
Went well!
Dreamflight767 — 30/10/2022 13:19
Hi. When you guys say “forward”, does that mean nose down? I’m having the hardest time with both take-off and landing. On take-off the airplane, even with the slightest of touches on my yoke, the nose pitches up almost 10 degrees, stalls and rolls. Reminds me an alligator when it’s attacking something. Same with landings. Can’t keep a stable approach. I notice when I flare, the speeds bleeds off significantly. If I don’t add a little power, I stall. If I add too much power in the flare, the airplane suddenly pitches up, stalls, and rolls.
I tried to do some stop and goes yesterday for practice but I was running out of patience. FYI, I fly Kodiak with heavier loads almost always close to the 40%CG.
I’ve got to explore (crash) at many cool new airports though thanks the Kodiak. :grin: :face_with_symbols_on_mouth:
Dreamflight767 — 30/10/2022 13:36
On the SWS support website, it says :–75% forward at 40% CG". So how do I know if I’m 75% forward? Thanks.
Alex Vletsas — 30/10/2022 17:29
Please check the Kodiak’s manual which can be found in Community/Kodiak/Manual or downloaded from our page.
Dreamflight767 — 01/11/2022 14:15
Thanks. Just checking here. The manual says “When the line is pointing
down, trim is at 100% of travel.” So, does 100% of “travel” mean the trim would be set at 75% nose down?
SWR120 — 01/11/2022 15:08
Line at 12 o’clock: NEUTRAL; at 9 o’clock: 50% down; at 6 o’clock: 100% down → 75% down is about7:30 (doesn’t matter am or pm)
Be aware that currently there is a minor bug and the trim will go further down when you speed up at the runway. So, if you are at MTOW, try about 40% down.
Zippy The Pinhead — 01/11/2022 18:36
Correction: it’s a major bug when the flap auto trim system reconfigures your trim while your take off roll transitions above 35 kts. It would be grounded in real life if it was happening there. Ditto for any other flight phases where it has an effect.
Alex Vletsas — 01/11/2022 19:03
Identified and fixed, undergoing testing.
Zippy The Pinhead — 01/11/2022 19:30
Great, looking forward to it.
Dreamflight767 — 02/11/2022 06:27
OK. Thanks!
Very helpful.
Breenild — 04/11/2022 15:45
I find the approach phase very difficult actually.
Compared to the beginning I have to work so much with power, trim and yoke that I feel, it’s a pain to land the Kodiak!

Especially in short fields landings it’s very difficult to find the proper trim and power setting to land that beast.
I can’t imagine, that this behavior is realistic.

One question at this point: are the speed labels in g1000 fixed or are they kind of calculated based on the weights etc? THIS would be really helpful if possible.
Alex Vletsas — 04/11/2022 16:22
Speeds are fixed and defined in flight_model.cfg.

Regarding approach, I haven’t had difficulty myself but I’m used to it. There is a very real issue with the flaps, however. Reason unknown but we have to rework them.
Dreamflight767 — 05/11/2022 07:27
I think you’re onto something with the flaps. The airplane handles very oddly when you start putting flap out.
B777ER — 07/11/2022 01:12
I and others I’m sure hope this is actively being worked on now?
Alex Vletsas — 07/11/2022 01:18
Flaps are being worked on, yes.
BlazinMonk — 07/11/2022 01:23
Yes Approaches are frustrating since the last update. Hard to get stable on approach. I had to just stop flying it until the next update.
antonvs [Z+10] — 08/11/2022 05:46
I have not flown this plane IRL but have flown it in-sim since release day and the same plane in two previous Sims, including the amphibian now. Vertical handling still is the only issue I have in this otherwise perfect plane.

I’m surprised when you mention AP issues at 35kts. Surely the AP (if you mean Autopilot) should have no effect until you turn it on at above 400ft AGL and at climb speed.

Note. Having read this thread further, I think you were referring to Auto Trim (AT) not AP.
But it is a good read
dmncnpilot — 13/11/2022 11:50
Hello, I’m new here. I thought it was me but I see that the pitch stability issues are affecting other people. I uninstalled the latest version and reinstalled the original v1.00. Did a flight and it was good, ay least it was flyable.
Zippy The Pinhead — 14/11/2022 13:58
Is this going to be fixed soon? I’ve stopped flying the Kodiak due to the current issues (again) and it would be really great to be able to fly it again.
Alex Vletsas — 14/11/2022 17:42
It will be fixed as soon as we get it right. Unfortunately a timeline isn’t always possible because sim updates change the flight model. We will try to have it ASAP.
Magel — 16/11/2022 01:58
Question, is it just me that find p factor of the kodiak 100 to be a bit excessive?
Alex Vletsas — 16/11/2022 02:23
Yes and no. On take-off, the Kodiak’s supposed to require 30-50% right rudder trim on take-off. The problem is that at slow speeds and high power she will crab a lot. We’ve tried to balance out the two effects and she’s correct on take-off, but once you are airborne and try to fly very slowly (in the 60s) you’ll see excessive crabbing. That’s one we’re having problems dealing with.
Valiantium — 16/11/2022 10:00
I’m glad to see this, ironically (crabbing issue). As a new Kodiak owner, I thought either I was a horrible pilot or the plane had horrible controlability issues at low speeds. I also notice it seems to fall out of the sky at full flaps.
Alex Vletsas — 16/11/2022 17:59
Flaps are a known problem with this version and we’re working on it right now.

I have to say, by far,m the WB-SIM C172 Classic Enhancement Mod.

OK, I am a little biassed, :upside_down_face: but I find it significantly more Realistic than any other MSFS GA plane.

Not sure if the Black Square (Just Flight) King Air qualifies as GA but for me this is currently tops and is significantly more Realistic than any other similar aircraft in the sim. For what it’s worth, I don’t think I am being biased here either.

If you want more of a Classic I can definitely recommend the Beech 18. The 3D model and textures are some of the best in the sim, the cockpit has a perfect balance of modern and steam instruments, and it’s pretty cheap for all the fun you will get out of it.

I’m a veteran simmer and I have several bad experiences with addons that were announced as “licenced” products or “tested by real pilots”. Too many bad experiences and too much money spent for nothing. And after read the Sonicviz post and others, I prefer, for now, don’t put my money on the Kodiak. I don’t say that the Kodiak is a bad addon, no way, but based on those comments, I would prefer looking for other options. Anyway, I appreciate your help.

I’m looking for something that offers more than complete checklist and the feeling of flying nicely. I’m looking for not real, but plausible performance numbers. And after read some comments, I’m not sure it the Kodiak is what I’m looking for. I repeat, I’m sure is a great addon, but not what I looking for. Anyhow, I appreciate your help, thank you.

Thank you for your complete answer. Some of the things you have mentioned, are what I want to avoid. As I said before, I’m sure Kodiak it’s a great addon, but I’m looking for another option.

Sorry but if we talk about C172, my heart belongs to A2A. I will wait patiently to them. But I appreciate your help, thank you.

I don’t like this new wave of addons using default planes but the with prices of almost complete addons…

Sorry but that isn’t what I’m looking for. I highly doubt that a Carenado product (the best looking addons, by far, of the market) could offer a deep performance simulation. And I assure you that I would love to be wrong. In my opinion, they are the best texturing developers.

I really appreciate all your responses. Sorry if I sounded rude in any of my responses.

Regards

Carenado Mooney m20r
Or the blackbox islander
Or the blackbox l19 bird dog.

Justflight Arrow or Turbo Arrow.

Many planes fit this criteria. All of the ones you listed are very close to the POH in terms of performance numbers. I fly the exact same way as you and I’m pleased in this regard by most of the GA planes I’ve purchased.

The ones I’ve gotten really in-depth, like doing my own performance and weight calculations by hand and doing Navlogs by hand, have been the Just Flight Pipers and the Cessna 310. The Carenado planes have surprisingly all been pretty solid by the numbers too - I just wish they had more detailed systems or the possibility of any damage at all to the engines.

I’d say you can’t go wrong with anything by Simworks Studios, Just Flight, or Blackbird. They all pay close attention to these details and feature engine damage so you have to fly by the numbers.

Based on what you wrote in the first post (“my sin is to be a prickly “flying by numbers” simmer. I love follow the real procedures and taking care of the engine based on the POH recommendations.”), the answer is an absolute no-brainer: PMDG DC-6. You’ll fly it by the numbers, except that those numbers are much more involved and fun to play with than other aircraft (e.g., switching to the superchargers, using proper cowl flaps, carburetor, …). The manual is extensive and covers all the numbers you need. I own most other aircraft mentioned here and there’s no comparison for your purpose.

I would also point to the JustFlight Arrow. Not the Turbo Arrow, as MSFS modeling of turbo-charging is still poor.

“Out of the Box”, it’s pretty accurate, but having lots of RW time in an Arrow, I’ve tweaked it, just a tad (fuel-flow, thrust, flaps lift/drag)… to make cruise setting by percentage, match KIAS and consumption… and to make descent/approach/landing more true to life.

The Warrior is pretty good, I have well over 100hours (in sim) in it. Just picked up the WB C172, and while the systems depth is impressive, I still prefer the feel of the Warrior. :slight_smile:

I hadn’t thought about the Just Flight Pipers. Good point. The 310 is a great temptation. Don’t you have by chance the C414? I would love to read your opinion. Thank you.

It has all the things I’m looking for. Even real routes in Alaska to simulate :slight_smile: I was waiting if the rumors about the development of their DC3 were true, but sadly it seems that it not gonna happen. Thank you very much!

As I said, I had forgotten the justflight piper family. I’ll check out. Thank you!

To learn the DC-6 you have the manual of course but also a series of tutorials on the PMDG YouTube channel, very recommended.

I also have the FlySimWhere C414. Wow what an amazing aircraft by the FlySimWhere team. I read that one of the devs owns a C414, which was the model they used. It’s incredible. I’m not a pilot (hoping to start my PPL in 2024 maybe), but the aircraft flys like a dream, and the systems depth is amazing. As far as I can tell it flies by the numbers almost exactly (I downloaded an actual POH to help me learn the aircraft). Amazing. I don’t normally fly Twin’s but when I do, this is the one for me. :slight_smile:

Inside my wallet there is a ferocious battle between the 310 and 414. I have no idea which one to choose. And there can be only one (at least until next year). I love both of them. I think that at the end, will be dependent on the price during the Black Friday. And the DC6… and the tiny Singer S4. Oh too many decisions.

I don’t have the 414 to compare to, unfortunately. I chose the 310 because it has wear and tear and failures of hundreds of components modeled, whereas the 414 does not. Based on the Top 5 Aircraft thread, it seems both are possibly the two best GA addons in the sim right now so you can’t really go wrong.

I hear you with the wallet debate. I picked up the C414 when it was still in Beta, and just before the release of the C310… I think your decision should be based on how you want to fly. While I enjoy the C414 very much, its a large plane (for a GA that is), seats 7 (I think) plus its pressurized, which is perfect for flying above FL180 and has good range. The perfect business Twin. :slight_smile: On the other side, is the C310, its more of a sightseer, or twin trainer, its not pressurized, so your limited to a lower ceiling. Not sure about the range, (as I don’t have it). Both are excellent aircraft in the sim, if I could have both I would. LOL Sorry that wasn’t very helpful.