BeyondATC

[Sling380]

Hopefully the world hub will help solve some of these.

[CharlieFox00]

Are you talking about the changes in magnetic variation?

[Bishop398]

@Grigna2020

I always maintain updated MSFS and FENIX with the latest AIRAC with Navigraph Hub but from my experience BATC seems to ignore them.

What you’re describing is not possible; BATC cannot ignore the installed navdata/scenery because there is only one way to access that data, which is through the SimConnect navdata API. This API abstracts away entirely any idea of the source of the data. If Navigraph is installed, the API returns only Navigraph. If an airport addon scenery is installed, it returns only the airport layout objects for the addon. It is not possible, via the API, to read multiple data sources and make decisions about what to keep and not keep, because the sim is throwing away the overwritten data on sim load, and the program using the API never sees it.

I’m not sure why it offered a runway that doesn’t exist; the only technical possibility I can think of is that the installed addon scenery has that runway defined (even if if might not be visible) and it is improperly defined as not closed, or that the runway is defined as closed and BATC has a bug which is not properly filtering those out. There is no way for BATC to access any other data.

In other words:

• If Navigraph navdata is installed, BATC can only see Navigraph navdata. The stock navdata is unloaded entirely from the sim.
• If an addon airport is installed, BATC can only see the addon airport layout structures. The stock airport layout structures are unloaded entirely from the sim.

There is no technical way to query overwritten data sources via the API at this time, as there is no field in the API for data source and the overwritten data is not actually loaded.

[LKFJP]

@Bishop398

There is no technical way to query overwritten data sources via the API at this time, as there is no field in the API for data source and the overwritten data is not actually loaded.

You certainly have the credentials to know what you are talking about, but I have to ask: What if it isn’t getting the data from the Simconnect API after the game loads and does all its organizing, and is instead reading it straight off the disk? LittleNavmap can generate its databse of nav data directly from the disk; MSFS doesn’t need to be running.

[Bishop398]

@LKFJP

What if it isn’t getting the data from the Simconnect API after the game loads and does all its organizing, and is instead reading it straight off the disk?

You’d have to ask BATC, but I’m certain it doesn’t do that. It would not be able to get the data from encrypted add-ons (anything from the Marketplace) if it did.

[DrVenkman3876]

Well, a prior Sim Update added functionality in the SDK for external programs to read airport data from encrypted Marketplace airports. Umberto has talked about it extensively in the very, very long GSX thread.

[Bishop398]

@DrVenkman3876

Well, a prior Sim Update added functionality in the SDK for external programs to read airport data from encrypted Marketplace airports.

Only via the SimConnect API I referred to previously, while the sim is running and loaded. The is no way to read these packages outside of the sim.

[BigCow74]

@CharlieFox00

changes in magnetic variation?

Yes. If an airport has changed runway numbers in real life due to magnetic variation change, and Navigraph updates it’s AIRAC data to accommodate, then Asobo needs to release a new airport scenery with matching runway changes. If it doesn’t, then none of the procedures for that runway will be available.

To my knowledge, World Hub does not let editors change runway numbers. We need a scenery update from Asobo (or a third party to replace the airport altogether).

[BigCow74]

@LKFJP

LittleNavmap can generate its databse of nav data directly from the disk

LNM will scan your install, along with whatever is in your community folder at that time, to create it’s own database. It still will not read encrypted airports that are part of the premium deluxe version, and it will give you a notification stating as such when building the database.

You have to have all your third party airports in your community folder when you update the LNM scenery database or it won’t add them.

The Navigraph Navdata updater will also update LNM AIRAC data whenever a new version releases.

(You might know all this already )

[CharlieFox00]

I can change runway numbers in the World Hub.

[Sling380]

So glad that’s the case. It will be needed from time to time and stops a reliance on the core sim being updated.

[RagingWombat839]

@LKFJP

What if it isn’t getting the data from the Simconnect API after the game loads and does all its organizing, and is instead reading it straight off the disk?

It does use the API and not disk, I’ve seen Captain say so. The apps using disk mostly do that because they predate the API, it would make no sense to read from disk now that is available. Even GSX stopped reading airport details from disk.

@Grigna2020

the problem at LPPT is exactly the opposite, the RNWY 35 no longer exists for years but BATC offered me the RNWY 35 even though in the Simbrief plan the runway was 02, where did BATC find the RNWY 35?

I’m pretty sure I saw that one fixed in patch notes. It was a bad scenery with a hidden dead runway. At least one scenery had a zombie runway which didn’t exist in the models and was still in the data with a runway length, but the lat long of both ends were the same! Crazy that people do these things but real life is a messy place. It’s these kinds of tweaks and workarounds that devs have to spend a lot of time implementing to make stuff that just works. BATC is right at the start of this curve but progressing rapidly, huge improvements even in the last few days.

[FelipeTurbay]

guys, i am descending via a STAR with my A320. Is it normal to get the ATC altitude instructions quite late? i noticed that if i wait for BATC to give me a new altitude my vertical profile starts to mess up…

[KnightofNi312]

You should be able to call ready for descent if that’s an option. They usually give me the approach info then “call back when ready to decend”. It’s hit or miss if they do this before or after TOD. I haven’t been on it since Tuesday so it could have changed.

[Terrylawdinn]

Not sure if this is correct or not but once you’re given a STAR or procedure approach you comply with it rather than wait for descent. Good use of VNAV if you’re so equipped.

[system0default]

IRL, when the controller tells you to “expect the ____ arrival with the ____ transition for the _____ approach to runway _____”, that does not constitute a descent clearance. You would want to subsequently hear something like “descend to _____ feet via the arrival”, “cleared to descend to ______ feet at pilot’s discretion” etc. before descending. You can also always ask for a descent, but your altitude clearance remains at your cruise level until you’re given a descent instruction.

That’s how it works IRL. Sounds like BATC is still working out some of these details.

PilotEdge has some great, free workshops that cover IFR procedures and ATC communication (also VFR procedures too): Pilot Training Workshops - PilotEdge.net

[FelipeTurbay]

Thanks for clarifying! Hope this will be fine tuned soon

[N6722C]

@Bishop398

You’d have to ask BATC, but I’m certain it doesn’t do that. It would not be able to get the data from encrypted add-ons (anything from the Marketplace) if it did.

and that is a big disappointment and limitation.

[RagingWombat839]

Not sure what you mean? BATC does use the API and so doesn’t have that limitation. I’ve been using it with marketplace airports already.

[JamAir421]

@system0default

IRL, when the controller tells you to “expect the ____ arrival with the ____ transition for the _____ approach to runway _____”, that does not constitute a descent clearance. You would want to subsequently hear something like “descend to _____ feet via the arrival”, “cleared to descend to ______ feet at pilot’s discretion” etc. before descending. You can also always ask for a descent, but your altitude clearance remains at your cruise level until you’re given a descent instruction.

That’s how it works IRL. Sounds like BATC is still working out some of these details.

PilotEdge has some great, free workshops that cover IFR procedures and ATC communication (also VFR procedures too): Pilot Training Workshops - PilotEdge.net

He is exactly right, I have noticed this in BATC as well. It is conflating ATC instructions with actual ATC clearances. Departures are another example. BATC will tell you ‘Turn right heading 045, VECTOR TO xxxxx. Then resume own navigation’

While that may ‘sound right’ it is wrong, at least it is not correct. A ‘VECTORS TO’ is NOT a clearance. The correct instruction should read something like this:

‘Turn right heading 045, when able direct XXXXX, then on course (resume own navigation)’. The ‘…DIRECT XXXXX…’ would be an actual clearance. The technicality is that without the direct XXXXX portion, the pilot is only cleared to fly a heading of 045 until or unless told otherwise.