Blurry glass panel displays under DLSS in cockpit wide view

[Vibstronium]

Glass panel displays in the cockpit wide view are much blurrier than I expect under DLSS, comparing them with analog instruments next to them whose labels are 3d modeled.

It looks like the textures are very low resolution, don’t get scaled up in any intelligent way, and also have serious ghosting when they change (for instance, the speed and altitude tapes). Flat textures elsewhere in the cockpit - labels and placards for instance - are similarly blurry, but don’t ghost.

Are you using Developer Mode or made changes in it?

same behavior with developer mode on or off; no changes made

Brief description of the issue:

glass panel displays (G3X, G1000, etc) are much, much blurrier than textures on analog instruments

Provide Screenshot(s)/video(s) of the issue encountered:

These are cropped from the wide cockpit view of C172 at 3440x1440 with settings on ‘Ultra’, CAS sharpening at 150, and AA set as described. Full images posted offsite, linked on a later comment: Blurry glass panel displays under DLSS in cockpit wide view - #101 by Vibstronium

TAA:

DLSS Quality:

DLSS Balanced:

DLSS Performance:

DLSS Ultra Performance:

Note how the G1000 screens degrade badly from each version to the next, but the ASI and altimeter don’t. However note also that the button labels and placard text, all of which are static flat textures, are also blurry.

The blurriness is much more pronounced on a 1440p panel than on a 4K panel, but the ghosting is the same at both target resolutions.

Detailed steps to reproduce the issue encountered:

1. load a plane with glass panel, such as Cessna 172 (G1000)
2. turn on the battery and avionics
3. set antialiasing to DLSS with any of the quality presets (the lower ones are blurrier)

PC specs and/or peripheral set up if relevant:

RTX 2070S, 3440x1440p monitor, tried both HDR and SDR

Are you using DX12?

no

Are you using DLSS?

yes

Are you using the multi monitor feature?

no

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For anyone who wants to contribute on this issue, Click on the button below to use this template:

Do you have the same issue if you follow the OP’s steps to reproduce it?

Provide extra information to complete the original description of the issue:

Are you using DX12?

Are you using DLSS?

If relevant, provide additional screenshots/video:

[MSteinhardt]

Fenix A320 Displays are blurry too with dlss on!

[Vibstronium]

It occurs to me that some of the analog instruments labeling may be fully 3-d modeled, as opposed to textures, which may account for some differences…

[ChaoticSplendid]

This has always been a problem with resolution scaling, the glass displays are upscaled in a very poor manner. At 1080p they look sharper than 2160p at 50% scale for example.

Set anti-aliasing to TAA and the resolution scale to 65%. How do they compare to DLSS Quality?

[RichardNI]

Yep, this is a rough one and within VR it’s an absolute nightmare.

[Vibstronium]

I’m not at the machine now but I remember the scaling under TAA to be similarly bad.

I kind of suspect that this is actually a case that DLSS simply doesn’t handle well – it handles edges of 3d objects fantastically but I think the algorithm doesn’t actually do anything much to improve textures on flat surfaces.

In the Cessna 172 (G1000) cockpit, the glass panels are bad, and so are the flat button labels and placards. But the controls, and 3d-modeled analog bits, have their edges beautifully extracted from the depth buffer, and this is applied to modify the output image to sharpen it…

[TheMightyFish5]

As I have written in the release note testing, I suspect the problem to be a bit different. Normally DLSS does not have problems with flat textures, especially not text, as the deep-learning-part of this technology often produces the best results when it recognises letters and symbols and high contrasts.

However, if the displays are rendered seperately and later fitted into the frame (Fenix shows how far apart you could pull those two things as it is possible to render the displays on a totally different GPU), a display that is put into the cockpit after the DLSS-sweep will not be sharpened.

This would not be a problem if the Display would use the desired target-resolution.
Other games do exactly that to keep their UI sharp - when using DLSS the UI is rendered with a higher resolution and not affected. I would expect the sim to do exactly the same with the displays, but apparently something is not working right. The Displays seem to render using the resolution DLSS starts with before upsampling.

[ChaoticSplendid]

Unfortunately I don’t have an RTX GPU so I can’t test it for myself, but I imagine it’s the same situation as with the TAAU. There is no advanced upsampling performed on the glass displays (which I believe are rendered with vector graphics), just some typical bicubic or bilinear upscaling. The following screenshots are taken at 50% render scale, top is with anti-aliasing off and bottom is with TAAU enabled. As we can see, no difference between the two in the glass displays.

I would recommend upvoting the following request which includes some potential solutions towards improving glass display legibility when the rendering resolution is lower than native.

EFIS Screens Problems and Solutions for higher legibility

Request I’d like you to consider the following suggestions (see below for bug description): Provide an option to rendering the EFIS screens using XrCompositionLayerQuad* Adjust the EFIS render resolution from the Post-Process resolution instead of the Render resolution. Provide user setting for the EIFS rendering resolution independently of the TAA Render resolution. Brief description of the issue: When exploring different combinations of Render Scaling (FS2020) vs Super Sampling (SteamVR o…

[Vibstronium]

Iiiinteresting. I do wonder what kind of render shenanigans are going on.

[TheMightyFish5]

Great link, it seems that the second step is exactly what is not working here → Displays are assigned the wrong resolution

[Vibstronium]

Voted. Here’s hoping it’s a simple fix and they get to it this cycle.

[Roi7471752]

Yes displays are blurry with DLSS and i don’t think its related to wide view. As well fast moving causes shadowing.

[NixonRider]

Do you have the same issue if you follow the OP’s steps to reproduce it?

Yes

Provide extra information to complete the original description of the issue:

Setting DLSS makes some elements of the cockpit blurry. Without DLSS its noticeably clearer, especially when unzooming having the elements smaller.

Are you using DX12?

Yes

Are you using DLSS?

Yes

If relevant, provide additional screenshots/video:

See bellow

PMDG 737 :

Without DLSS :

With DLSS Quality

With DLSS Performance

With DLSS Balanced

It’s hard to see on screenshots, I think there is a slight deterioration of the image already with a steam screenshot. Anyhow slight deterioration of sharpness with DLSS. I noticed it right away.

When unzooming, it’s more obvious as numbers get smaller.

Without DLSS (TAA) :

With DLSS (Balanced) :

Without is much clearer.

Without DLSS (TAA) :

With DLSS (Balanced) :

Without DLSS (TAA) :

With DLSS (Quality) :

Edit, there is an obvious screenshot deterioration from the sim to the web. Its a bit more significant when in sim while moving and unzooming, at quick glances it’s obvious.

[Boobbuster007]

No increased performance??

[EnsiFerrum666]

Do you have the same issue if you follow the OP’s steps to reproduce it?

Yes

Provide extra information to complete the original description of the issue:

Are you using DX12?

Yes

Are you using DLSS?

Yes

If relevant, provide additional screenshots/video:

[Vibstronium]

@Boobbuster007

No increased performance??

Performance is great! But this is true if, and only if, you are GPU-limited without it. If you are limited on the main thread, DLSS will not improve your frame rate.

[ANDYS2790]

Do you have the same issue if you follow the OP’s steps to reproduce it?

yes

Provide extra information to complete the original description of the issue:

Blurry screen with small pixels

Are you using DX12?

Yes

Are you using DLSS?

Yes

If relevant, provide additional screenshots/video:

update after 30 mins the screens deteriorated even more

[DensestSnail693]

I’ve been experimenting with custom desktop sizes and DLLS and found zero difference in performance between a 1080p desktop and a 1440p one but visually 1440p was way, way better even on a 1080p monitor. Of course my system although not particularly high end has much to do with it so I can only suggest to try it and make your own mind up … However I think all mid range PCs will benefit.

1. In NVCP make sure DSR and Image Scaling are off
2. Create and test a 2560 x 1440p desktop resolution, then leave NVCP.
3. Copy this desktop size to UserConfig.opt replacing the 1920x1080 windowed and fullscreen size.
4. In NVCP apply the new desktop and then Image Scaling.
5. Start MSFS, set full screen if necessary and DLSS if you haven’t already.
6. Play

It is a little long winded the first time but if enough of us benefit then possibly Asobo could taylor the sim to always show a 1440p resolution, not just to those that support it natively.

OK I may have been a little hasty because now after swapping back the servers seem to have caught up and I do see an improvement in 1080p performance and not so much blurriness as before but still I think 1440p is worth trying.

Edit: again - after losing my NIS and the clarity it brings I decide to backtrack and discovered I need to initially apply the new resolution and image scaling in NVCP and have amended my guide above. If on doing so you still have a blurry desktop and no green NIS in the top left corner the only cure is a clean reinstall of your drivers and starting again. Before anyone says it, I know it’s not how NIS is supposed to work but here’s a non blurry cockpit shot to show that it does. You can’t see the green NIS but I most certainly can.

[FinalLightNL]

For me the Image looks alot better with DLSS Quality
Native resolution is 4K 3840x2160
It restores all lost data regular TAA destroys, i love it.

(Just right click and open image in new tab for full quality and size)

With DLSS

Without DLSS (Just TAA)

With DLSS

Without DLSS (Just TAA)

With DLSS

Without DLSS (Just TAA)

With DLSS

Without DLSS (Just TAA)

[Silvera1657]

Just zoomed into fences on your cockpit photos and DLSS one looks sharper with more detail. How’s that possible to have it sharper than TAA!? Are you sure you tagged these photos correct?

DLSS ON (as you tagged it)

DLSS OFF (as you tagged it)

The fence is missing with TAA