[BUG/FEATURE] FS2020 is breaking the VR golden rule: don't move the camera, the user is

People here seem to think X-Plane 11 has this lock to horizon implemented, but it’s exactly the same as MSFS. I don’t play XP11 anymore, but I do hope they step up and add this vital function of horizon lock. It’s so boring flying around without any turbulence all the time…

This is one of those things that you don’t fully realize what you are missing until you experience it. It will make a big difference to have this simple feature implemented.

Thanks to everyone for continuing to push for this feature. A slider or some scale that people can set from 0 to 100% would give everyone the option.

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Unfortunately no change on SU7. Still using the unrealistic and nauseating camera.

Dear Asobo, the issue hasn’t gone anywhere even if you have no idea. You guys should, instead, try to to ask questions in order for you to understand the issue. There’s loads of helpful people in here willing to help you out.

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It worked!!! Thank you so much for the guidance and help!

This issue has now reemerged itself in the VR bug listing for the latest developement update.

I have all the faith in you MSFS developer guys. It’s not like we tried. If it still is unclear - feel free to ask any questions recarding this issue. We really are willing to help you guys out.

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@CptLucky8 "[VR] Head rotation due to G forces should be limited in VR because it changes view direction. Your eyes are compensating naturally.

[VR] Head movement due to G forces should be limited to very small distances (see above aircraft movement)."

I do not understand what you are saying here, I see not any head Rotation due to G forces in VR, the Camera is locked to the cockpit and never moves (test it without putting the headset and look at the mirror, there is not any camera movement inside the cockpit, it simply follows cockpit, with no physics), it is only the user who moves the camera. Could you explain what you are talking about?

Also, your eyes are not compensating naturally in any VR experience unless you experience true G force affecting your inner ear gyros. Any movement of the camera without the corresponding inner ear signal will not make your eyes able to compensate anything.

What you are expecting from the sim seems to be as i understand, the contrary of the title suggesting MSFS is breaking any camera rule in VR. You actually want the camera to move and rotate with a latency instead of being locked to the cockpit, to prevent the world from moving instantly in VR.

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Just noticed that this issue has moved in the developement roadmap from “under investigation” to “not planned”.

So what gives Asobo? The issue hasn’t gone anywhere. It will not go anywhere. Can you atleast give us the reason behind why this change is discarded? It still is the second most sought after change in the bug listing, afterall.

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I tried this but please help me… What’s the difference now?? I don’t get it.
It feels like there are still the same movements. The head is still mounted to the Cockpit!

Since Asobo has abandoned the suggestions made in this thread I made a new wish for the second best option - to have a toggle to disable atmospehric effects altogether.

I have a small favor to ask from you - go vote for the change.

I haven’t touched flat screen since alpha/beta times one and a half year ago. Today I flew flat screen again, and noticed that the required code for the camera is already there! It’s already in use in flat screen mode. Just watch how your aircraft window frames move when entering turbulence.

In the flat screen version it is some kind of bastardized version with mixed frame shake and horizon shake of the camera version that’s most suitable for VR. There’s also some “head lag” in flat screen mode when rolling - most likely to try to simulate head movements while rolling the aircraft.

For VR these changes would be enough to remedy the horizon shaking vomit inducing camera:

  • Activate the flat screen type camera for VR
  • Disable uncommanded “head lag” movement that happens for example when rolling the aircraft - keep the movement that is commanded trhough aircraft controls.
  • Move every uncommanded “horizon shake” camera movement as “frame shake” movement - for example the turbulence effects

And that’s it! VR camera fixed.

Thank-you for your response in the other thread. It would be inappropriate to continue the discussion there, soo…

Your last post, above does make more sense to me than the the blanket statement of “locking camera to the horizon”.

In the case of turbulence, I understand the motion of the cockpit rather than the horizon, but only in the case of uncommanded movement. The way you previously described the horizon reference was not making sense. IRL, the pilot’s head and eyes do not remain aligned with horizon but with the glareshield. Unlike driving a car, where the driver will involuntarily tilt their head in anticipation of the shift in g-force in a turn, g-force in an aircraft remains perpendicular to the seat. As the seat tilts, gravity tilts as well and is not in any way related to the earth’s center. The result, in experienced pilots, is that the head and spine remain in alignment with the aircraft, not the horizon. This is particularly important in IFR conditions as vertigo would otherwise overcome the pilot.

I recently had the opportunity to try VR flight in a combat simulation. One of the significant advantages, I found, was that by using the aircraft as my frame of reference rather than the horizon it makes tracking a target during maneuver much easier. The fact that the camera remains fixed on the airframe is what make that possible.

I fly aerobatics as a hobby IRL and find it nearly impossible to control the aircraft with precision in MSFS without my TrackIR. I am really looking forward to trying it with a VR headset. It would be a shame if the previous request of “locking to the horizon” was implemented. However I completely agree with…

FYI, even in the other sim that I did fly VR, the owner of that setup cannot fly combat in VR without extreme nausea. Few pilots in real life can look over their shoulder while performing even basic aerobatic maneuvers without ejecting pizza. I would expect that most simmers that have never experienced flight outside of the restrictive view in an airliner, will experience some level of nausea when attempting to fly a sim in VR.

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Common name in the industry for a certain type of VR camera implementation.

ps. I’ve had my share of hours in a low wl plane dodging CBs. It’s nothing new.

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When developers listen to the screams of those who cannot handle VR instead of the silence of those who cannot leave the game because they are playing it in full immersion.

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This made me thinking - you’re the perfect example of how difficult conveying the problem is. The issue is explained pretty throughoutly in the first post in this thread, it has a industry wide known name and we’ve talked about it through the thread. Still we get the feeling that the relevant people inside Asobo do not understand the issue correctly, just like you did previously.

Communication succeeds only by accident - a known aphorism inside people who work with voice communication between people.

Now Asobo read post [BUG/FEATURE] FS2020 is breaking the VR golden rule: don't move the camera, the user is - #93 by Altsak again and you’re done. I’ve said it before “I have faith in you guys” and I still do. :slight_smile:

I did some crazy overspeed last time, oh boy, this is how I definitely understood the issue. The horizon is shaking like crazy and only the horizon.

Disable damages and give it a try, this will be obvious to your eyes (and brain).

You’re absolutely right. I never realized this but it feels as if the plane is rotating along it’s wings at the CG point. I sometimes still get sick from these movements, even after flying VR for a month now.
You should feel this “sink” and “updraft” instead.
(same goes for sideways movements btw)

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How will the upcoming changes discussed in the January 2022 Developer Q&A ( Developer Q&A Twitch Series: January 26th, 2022 - YouTube ) impact this issue? Specifically, the changes in physics and aerodynamic modeling that is being done in advance of helicopters and is going to benefit fixed wing aircraft as well?

No impact. The issue here is purely “cameratechnical”.

A small caveat tho: If the change affects how turbulence is modeled and simulated in the aircraft there might be a change on how pronounced the issue will become for the user. The more shaking of the horizon the worse the issue becomes or vice versa.

Please fix this. The original post is accurate. I am a real life pilot and my eyes are always fixed on horizon (when not on a swivel).

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We can only hope and vote. Not worth of holding breath tho.