[BUG/FEATURE] FS2020 is breaking the VR golden rule: don't move the camera, the user is

I have no idea what the entries in the simulator.cfg really do, but the effects are noticeable for me at least. If I put them all to an extreme value (like 999) and then fly it’s pizza on the walls. Reverting them to zero reduces the pizza-effect greatly.

No it isn’t the solution nor even a solution to the underlying problem - which is the world shake.

I 100% agree with you, I think what you are asking for is that option often called “VR LOCK TO HORIZON” in the world of simracing (just google it for further explanations) , it’s a must have as it gives you the feel that your head and eyes are naturally reacting to the vehicule’s mouvements, increasing the immersion and significantly reducing the nausea effect . +1 Vote.

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Yes this is something close to this except it shouldn’t lock to the horizon at all (although this could be an additional option altogether).

The point is that the VR camera reference position and direction should lag the aircraft position and direction when it is abruptly changing, so that outside world stays coherent to your real seated position, at least for a short while, effectively giving the illusion the vehicle is moving quickly around you until your body and head catches up. This is the main difference between racing and flying: the vehicle can rotate with much larger angles.

There are some good guidelines available on the subject and FS2020 is breaking these, most likely because the first version with VR is the first version, and thanks to this topic they might consider doing 2D style camera in VR is not appropriate*. They must know this already because Jorg has been telling us Asobo has a long experience already in VR/AR.

Some docs:

https://docs.unrealengine.com/en-US/SharingAndReleasing/XRDevelopment/VR/DevelopVR/ContentSetup/#vrandsimulationsickness

  • Avoid cinematic cameras, or anything that takes control of camera movements away from the player, as this tends to be the biggest culprit of your user having a bad VR experience.

  • Do Not have “Walking Bob” for a camera effect (like in most first person games). Causing the camera to move up and down to mimic the movement of the human body will give player Simulation Sickness, ruin their VR experience.

  • Do Not “Shake” the camera when trying to relay an event to the player. If a grenade goes off next to a player, a camera shake may make sense in non-VR games, but in VR games, it can trigger Simulation Sickness very quickly.

Mind you, this is a complex topic and not easy to implement properly in a flight simulation because of the extreme vehicle movements possible, but sure enough, the way it is implemented right now (using 2D camera movements code in VR) is completely wrong and must be addressed.


*Well in fact I hope they might consider it, but given their last Q&A, I’m not even sure how their VR/AR expertise will be used in FS2020 because “VR Camera” is not even on the radar:

Discussion: Live dev Q&A January - #57 by CptLucky8

But on the other hand I can’t help thinking there is something wrong with it, like the LOD and Trees topics.

Where do these “wishes” come from?

Screenshot of the VR bugs and issue taken today vs feedback snapshot VR

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[update] I’ve posted a video in the OP.

I just replied to another post with my comparison to a driving sim in VR. In driving sims, the horizon is locked to an extent and does not move up and down and does not roll as the car goes up or down or banks right/left on a camber. This helps a great deal with motion sickness, but at some extreme angles definitely makes it feel like the car is moving around and under you, but its a lot more manageable.
I agree with the OP, for the turbulence and high amplitude motion in the flight sim, the airplane should be moving under the user, while keeping horizon locked to VR user’s head.
It could get tricky I imagine trying to decipher what motion is turbulence and have the horizon locked and what motion is roll, yaw and pitch, which would pitch and roll the horizon in your headset. Then combining the two as you bank and turn through turbulence.

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Has something happened since the last sim update? For me world shake is suddenly far more puke inducing than before.

I don’t believe anything has changed, but it’s all very dependent on wind and location as this dictates how much the aircraft moves… so you could just be flying with more wind than previously, especially if using live weather.

There is definitely too much yaw oscillation to be realistic, and yaw is the one guaranteed to make the most people feel ill in VR so it’s well set up for puke town.

Try flying with nil or calm winds if you are struggling, less fun and dynamic but you won’t get as much of that irritating yaw waggle.

I noticed this too. I’ve solved that issue by just turning off the camera motion in the menu. It seems to help with performance on VR as well.
It doesnt bother me in 2d either , as it’s hard to manage dials and switches when its moving around. At least IRL you can brace your hand against the panel to steady yourself, not so much in the sim.

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Nice to see most of your suggestions, including this one, have made it intop the VR wishlist in the last development block @CptLucky8 - there’s hope for us yet!

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I totally agree with the problem reported in this post.
I feel that cabin turbulence in VR could be better implemented if the cabin shaking didn’t go together with scenery shaking. In real life, our head tends to compensate for the turbulence movement, thus we don’t see the horizon shaking that much. The other day, when playing Dirt Rally 2 with VR, I noticed that their implementation of shaking uses this logic: the cockpit shakes a lot, while the horizon is more stable, which helps to avoid motion sickness. AFAIK, previous sims never implemented this solution, but, who knows, MSFS (or some addon) could do something that way? For XP11, an addon (XP realistic) did something similar to this for 2d camera shake only, never for VR. Some sort of head inertia is a must for VR.

I hope that this does get addressed. Even In Autopilot where you get small tremour type turbulence the camera, plane and the outside world moves. In reality even with aircraft movement, our eyes transfixed on a particular point won’t move (or can adjust rapidly)

It’s very distracting to have where your eyes are looking at a point, constantly move or vibrate.

in VR , the camera should allow for a tolerance of movement seperate to the movement of the plane.

This video below is a good analogy of how the head should move in relation to the plane itself.

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That’s a cool video mate!

thanks for the video, this perfectly illustrates the point!

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I was just recently flying after not flying for a while and was getting so frustrated by this. We need a slight lock to horizon up to a certain degree. This is basic stuff for vr that should have been in there from the beginning.

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Yeah. I agree, it’s not right currently and it’s annoyed me for a while. I hope MS takes notice of this thread. There seems to be two things in play for VR.:

  • The lag between head movement and camera movement
  • The movement of the camera relative to the aircraft movement

Firstly, head movement lag. If you shake your head in VR, there’s too much lag. It’s immersion breaking and needs to be improved even if it means dropping frames.

Secondly, moving the camera relative to the aircraft movement.

A simple implementation would have the camera positioned at a fixed point relative to the aircraft, but offset by the user’s head movements. That would result in hardly any perception of turbulence.

A nauseating implementation would be where the camera quickly and sharply gets moved in the opposite direction to violent aircraft movement.

IRL, your body is acting as a damper so the effect needs to be somewhere between the two. Ideally I’d like to see a “VR camera comfort” slider that allows you to set from “Don’t move my head” to “Make me vomit”. :grinning: then people can choose what feels best for them.

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For those reading this thread, if you agree with the comments In this thread, please vote at the top left of this thread. Currently sits at 139 votes. The only way we will be able to advertise to Asobo and get this on the snap shot is to vote.

Appreciate your support on this as this affects all VR Users.

I do not believe this affects all VR users. Personally I don’t recognize any of the problems described here. Movement and turbulence looks very realistic to me! Also, my experience is that the camera only moves when I move my head…

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Curious, do you have the lights on in your room? My headset was moving about a bit, but once I turned the lights on so it could track correctly, voila, problem solved.

I don’t get it too. I personally would appreciate XPReality version on MSFS. That is the one thing I enjoy in XP. You can set the sliders to your comfort. It is just amazing taxing, landing and experiencing turbulence.

Its not a tracking problem. Its a camera problem with the way VR works. When you are in VR in a vehicle that is moving but you are stationary you gte the effect. Racing games have a thing called Lock to Horizon which means when the car going over a bump or bank your head/view doesnt bump or bank, it remains locked to the horizon. This is to simulate how we experience a bump in real life, but in VR without this, it jerks your view around and can become extremely nauseating.

When you are flying with any amount of turbulence your viewpoint in the game is moving around with the turbulence, this is incorrect. This is the problem. Now obviously you can’t have 0 amount of input because that wouldnt be realistic in a plane, but you need to have a buffer or deadzone, where the plane rocks and tilts around you.

I have to think there are lines in the config that could be edited for this similar to every other game out there. Devs could easily add this as well with a slider to adjust head movement. Its the number 1 thing keeping me from flying right now.

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