[BUG LOGGED] Shimmering/AA downgrade since SU5 (in-game, not menus/overlays)

Yup, I am just as outraged as you are about this… it’s basically broken the immersion factor out of our hobby!

Ever since the pandemic started, there probably hasn’t been enough QA Testers working on these issues now.

I for one am not happy one bit about the Xbox merger with the PC ecosystem.

If my PC that I’ve spent thousands of dollars on just to use this $120 piece of software has been downgraded to match a $500 console. I have one; received a faulty product, and two; my PC has been turned into a console! Basically a brick now since I don’t even really use it.

Everyone knows legal issues can arise when you publish faulty products… and especially if the sole intent here is to simply make money and not put heart into it. This is where you clearly end up at.

“Fix the sim!”

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After spending quite a big amount of money over RTX 3080 TI in the aim of having a fluid 4K experience with MSFS, devoloprers come up with they are not able to fix 4K / AA and shimmering problems because they are not able to reproduce problems regarding these. In the aim of XBOX optimisation you messed up PC side and still persisting to keep this way. Community is going crazy on some topics/bugs/lack of features but there is no real responds except the devolopment updates which is only for relaxing people slightly. Please keep ignoring some aspects of the community and see what happens next. Gamers and gamer related features, improvements and DLC’s may bring money in short term but simmers will be your solid future if you want to stay long term ahead. Please think this again. I undertand the commercial points and accept the issues at some level but isn’t it enough after a year ? Focus on sim core and fix the shimmer which was not an issue before SU5. Do you think are we lying ? After all those SS’s and videos can you easily escape stating unable to produce the problem ? Do we seem a bit stupid from other side ?

Kind regards.

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Keep the simmers happy and the future of the sim is secured.

I personally don’t care about the landmarks or eye candy extras of the sim such as WU’s…

What I care about is being able to fly properly and simulate the aircraft first and foremost… We are beginning to reach Microsoft Flight airspace now… Do you really want to go through that fiasco again Microsoft and lose trust within the sim community?

You’ve already released the simulator to Xbox, the damage is done now, not like you can cancel it now. In terms of optimization you will now have to work to separate the Xbox simulator graphics from the PC’s graphics in some form or another to resolve this AA issue.

It really ticked me off when Microsoft had NVIDIA release DCH drivers for Windows simply to satisfy their store Apps compatibility but ruining how other applications worked and gaming quality…

It’s a fiasco I tell ya!

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@Jummivana

We all don’t know if it’s actually the broken antialiasing. We are not developers.

But the fact is that there has been so much more shimmering since Simupdate 5. This can be seen especially in the buildings in the distance and in VR. I don’t have to send screenshots etc. for it. Start the Sim, fly a lap in VR and especially look at the buildings in the distance. The buildings shimmer like hell since Simupdate 5. Before the update, it was much, much better. The shimmer is also present in 2d, but it is more noticeable in VR.

Whether the shimmer is due to the poorer antialiasing is just a guess of mine. It could possibly also be due to reflections or the like. A short feedback from the developers would be very good here.

We are simply concerned with removing the shimmer. Please fix the shimmer bug. And you must have noticed the shimmer.

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We’re not devolopers or experienced engineers in software area. All we do is to state if there is any visual problems. So I don’t understand why we need to prove in detail if there is something unusual by visuals. As you mentioned they just need to run the sim on high resolution with full render scale and see there is a visual degradation by shimmer or whatever the name is. This issue is quite clear to exist on most of the systems and we need to hear better plans how to resolve it rather than ignoring the problem. If all those visual issues we have been experiencing is related with DX12 then please announce this clearly and state all those will gone after DX12 impl. or if no then find particular ways to fix each visual issue. Clouds - AA Shimmer - Shadows - Reflections and similar ones. All these are major things which kills immersion significantly. They are well below average and sometimes become unacceptable. I don’t understand how we end up in such state ? Major bugs are being delayed over and over ? A year. A full year and we still have same bugs even some of them being tagged as fixed by release notes ? Why ? How ? There might be some gamers quite happy about the visuals we have but if you are plalning long terms let me inform you that real simmers not happy by lack of major features and repetitve ignored fixes. I don’t care the Top Gun or similar DLC’s, I care sim core and major features first. Before the world updates why don’t we have better clouds or realistic night lighting ?

Kind regards.

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@Jummivana

Here is a post from Captain Lucky that clearly shows the problem of the shimmer in a video.

Asobo watch the videos in the link and you will see the shimmer at the buildings clearly. You cannot say that the Shimmer error is not reproducible.

And please give up a short feedback that this issue (Shimmer bug since Simupdate 5) will be fixed in the future.

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I think we should provide a precise scenario for them to look at, with all variables (weather, lighting etc) the same, as then they should definitely see it (and if they don’t, I am keen to understand the config of their testing system!)

One that we have discussed before is the Rio A320 landing challenge. For me the shimmering is immediately apparent on the buildings to the left immediately when the challenge starts. This is not curable for me with any settings changes. I have Quest 2 but others have the same with different headsets.

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Well said. The shimmering is the worst bug in SU5 for VR players, at least many of them. Some don’t seem to see it? It blows my mind…

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I would say that the shimmer is actually much worse on my system. If someone provides me with simple instructions on how to record a video of the VR source, I can try and post it.

EDIT: Looks like it’s pretty simple directly via WMR, I will give it a try.
EDIT2: Tried it with the regular WMR capture function and the shimmer simply isn’t visible in the video. Surely this means that the problem is occuring to the signal somewhere along the way of it getting processed for, and put into, the HMD?

Good idea. I’ve never done this challenge but will take a look at it when I have time. Bascially, I get really bad shimmer in basically any autogen building area that is not in my immediate vicinity. It looks soo ugly and yes, it’s immersion killer #1.

It’s not just that the distant buildings are shimmering. Even the cockpit, text boxes, the wing edges etc. It is evident that anti-aliasing must not be working properly as every straight edge is jagged when tilted.

Also, at the exact same time, the issue appeared in menus and overlay windows, so this must be somehow connected. Asobo have acknowledged this issue and say it will be fixed, so we can only hope that this also solves the problem in general.

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I honestly think it may only be apparent with certain hardware / driver configures if some people are really not seeing it.

There should be no need to set a specific environment for the simmering / non-existent AA to be seen. I see it on the runway as soon as my flight starts, and in VR the second I put on my VR headset. Runway markings, wing edges, cockpit edges, lines on the PFD and ND etc. It’s very prominent.

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According to the roadmap, only the antialiasing in the menu will be repaired. The problem with the shimmer in the game is supposedly not reproducible for Asobo.

I can’t explain why Asobo doesn’t see this shimmer problem in game, especially in VR…

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Here’s where I see new shimmering/aliasing since SU5:
-Overlay windows
-Buildings, particularly in bright sun (As described in this thread, visible in Rio landing challenge and similar to video shown by Captain Lucky above)
-Thin and high contrast text/lines on glass cockpits such as the A320 displays.

Since release I have also had constant shimmering on thin objects such as radio masts, fences etc.

10850k, 3090, Quest 2 via both Steam VR and Oculus VR. I fly at native resolution and 100 render scale, but like others I have experimented with many different settings, drivers etc but have been unable to resolve this.

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@CptLucky8 : What recording method did you use to capture your shimmer video? I’d like to have a go too and tried with the standard WMR method, which produced a very choppy video where the shimmering was not really apparent.

I see it in almost all the time as well. But in certain conditions it is not as prominent. I just tried the new Dusseldorf Windy landing challenge and it is super prominent on the houses there as well.

This is a very representative video of the issue, and to set the record straight, there has been no change between SU4 and SU5 on the system used to recording it (drivers, hardware, etc…), or even if there has been one that I don’t remember, it is so widespread an issue that it makes it unlikely this is just a system related problem only (but it could be).


I’ve already posted all the details in my posts:


Of course it is also a possibility and a reason why this issue won’t be addressed as-is, but in this case it would have been clear for everyone if clearly announced. However, it is possible this can’t be announced as being solved with DX12 only because DX12 on PC is not fully implemented yet and they can’t therefore commit on any future uncertainty, which is expected and normal.


I’m the founder of Reality XP, we’ve been contributing to building this industry which was nascent when we started 20 years ago, we’ve kept raising the bar with a proven track record of renown, awarded products and innovative R&D ever since, on 3 different major simulation platforms. Yet MSFT stopped talking with us dead cold since March 2020. Being successful developer or experienced enginer in the field of video games, flight simulation and professional simulation doesn’t seem to be any valuable argument to help making this franchise any better.

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Oh i overread that, thanks

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I agree with both of these statements, and I will add that the issue may materialize differently for different hardware configurations. In my case, I see some shimmering, mainly in the distance, but my overall image both outside and inside the cockpit is blurrier than pre-SU5. But as someone above mentioned, whether or not this is really even due to an AA issue or something else that has changed is an unknown. The sim is a black box, and I can just go off of my perceived difference in image quality.

I am not quite sure what to offer up for Asobo to repro this. I can’t really offer visual proof, since I don’t have any screenshots from pre-SU5.

@Jummivana : I would be glad to detail my hardware specs, GPU & SteamVR configurations and MSFS configuration if this is something the devs would like to see, but I suppose in the end, whether or not they see anything wrong with the image is somewhat subjective.

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Yet Lionel’s interview hinted they made some changes to the TAAU (accumulation buffer related IIRC), and when I look at the videos (and it shows better on the longer ones I have but couldn’t post due to size) it is clearly showing a repeating jittering pattern. Either it is jittering done usually for example to reduce posterization visually, or it is jittering due for example to cutting the precision of some maths in the shader code (loosing the less significant digits), or even an overflowing computation of some sort (like with base2 integer maths). But this is clearly repeating in a cycle.

From the look of it it seems to affect only certain materials and only at certain distances. You can see in the video some larger nearby buildings are not affected. This all speaks LOD related problem here, probably the BShark AI buildings at this LOD level using a wrong material, causing clipping, and overflowing. Just speculating of course, and in any case, what can I know.

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