Carenado P28R Arrow III: Unable to take off with flaps after Sim Update 3

1973 PA28-180 Challenger was the last year of the Hershey bar wing design. 1974 they changed the name to Archer took on the wing designed for the Warrior. I believe the Arrow, too in the same year.

I owned a 1/4 share in a Challenger for a long time. Really nice airplane. The Challenger had the extra fuselage length of the Archer, and the Hershey bar wing.

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Interesting fact is that when Piper named the 180 the Challenger and the Cherokee 235 the Charger, Chrysler threatened to sue them since Dodge had two cars with the same names. so, Cherokees with the Challenger and Charger names were not around very long. The names got changed to the Archer and the Dakota. I guess someone in Piper marketing wasn’t thinking the day those names were chosen.

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Seems like there will be a patch today for the Arrow. Just received a new MS development update, and Carenado Arrow seems to be among updated products.

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Cool, I didn’t know that. I was wondering why the name was so short lived. The origin of the change in most reports I’ve read is that they were returning to Native American names, but, I like your answer better. Sounds more logical.

Ooh, I missed the rest of your question. There’s actually quite a bit of debate on the performance difference of the two wing planforms. In general, there’s not really much difference at all. The two men at Piper in charge of wing design fought over it quite a bit apparently. Fred Weick went with the taper to 1. increase the wingspan to handle the greater weight of the stretched fuselage, 2. “Improve the stall characteristics” since the outer panel would stall first, and 3. Better climb performance and “flatter” cruise performance.

But John Thorp, the original designer of the Cherokee, didn’t like the design. Given the outer panel stalls first, the ailerons therefore lose effectiveness in stall so the wing design is actually less safe.

Others also point out that, to improve stall characteristics they increased the camber and drag of the outer panel, and canceled out any improvement of the longer wing.

Other confusion over stalling comes about because the, saying goes, there’s less warning of stall for the Hershey Bar vs the Warrior wing (which was added to the Arrow with the release of the Arrow III in 1977). But the basis of that was because, originally, stall warning was just a red light on the left side of the panel (which my plane had)(but it also had an audible warning) and no audible warning signal… the audible warning was added in later models. But you know how the telephone game goes…

There is plenty of physical warning of stall with the Hershey bar wing, no different in my experience from the Warrior wing really. And the two are pretty much just as safe as each other.

Generally, a lot of pilots prefer the Hershey wing, as it is slightly more efficient and gives a knot or two of extra speed according to lore…

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It happened also for landing, extending flaps, and the plane go down!

Here you go!

http://acversailles.free.fr/documentation/08~Documentation_Generale_M_Suire/Conception/Calculs_de_structure/Tapered%20wings%20are%20for%20birds%20and%20very%20large%20airplanes.pdf

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:slight_smile: I believe I remember reading somewhere that the relationship was quite acrimonious over this subject between the two men :wink:

Looks like the actual decision to taper may have been to save money when they decided to make the wing longer to support the extra weight with the lower horsepower available in the Warrior? And then liked the cost savings of using the same wing everywhere?

Thanks for the info man! I only found this out while coming in to land on a 30 min flight!! Freaking MSFS…

There’s a new patch for the Arrow.
kuva

There seem to have been some quite significant changes to the flight model. First impression:

  • Better reaction to flaps

  • It is now stable in roll, and doesn’t immediately roll back to wings level. If anything, my feeling is that it is now too stable, but someone currently flying should comment if possible. It’s a long while since I flew one for real sadly.

For some reason I cannot get AP working on version 1.1. Other than that it’s a big improvement overall. And I agree it feels too stable in the air.

If the autopilot button is stuck, restarting the flight should fix it. Seems to be a bug in this version of the sim.

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Thanks, it works again.

Same issue for me. I am waiting update soon, I hope :frowning:

The same here. Impossible to fly even not using flaps. Totally unstable. Has anyone managed to fix this?

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Are you using the modern flight model, and not legacy? Legacy is meant for FSX conversions.

Lol, just discovered after the Piper Arrow III update this month, April 2023, no take off and no flight, nose down into the ground! What the heck, it just updated!??? How do you lock the trim wheel? I set to 1.5 and it still moves around. Driving me crazy all the stuff you have to figure out! I guess Youtube or google is the best source.

What the hell are some people doing with their sim/hardware? :wink: The new updates of the Arrow III and Seneca V work great and they are a lot of fun to fly now… :slight_smile:

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I got the new update from Marketplace the other night but only managed to get time on it today. No problems on take off from short little KAVX (Catalina Island).