I found a workaround binding “TOGGLE INSTRUMENT VIEW 1” fired with a “long press” on HAT DOWN switch using SPAD.neXt.
Can we set “long presses” within MSFS bindings? What is “Delayed input” designed for?
…and that screws up the external views using the hat switch. When in external, a down press of the hat switch activates Instrument 1 view, even when in external view. Freaking annoying.
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As I already mentioned … long time ago I switched away form “pilot positions” to “custom views”. So my workflow did not change. However …
I tried the “Pilot Position” commands and FS2024 does indeed have some changes there:
- Now the positions actually mean “position” = x, y, z
- … I am pretty sure that in FS2020 it also preserved the viewing direction
- Just like the “Custom Camera” views.
- Now, when I am in “IFR Cockpit Mode” and press “Previous Camera Position”
- … I do get back to the “VFR Cockpit Mode”
- and pressing “Previous Camera Position” from there brings me back again to “IFR”
- So we have a previous loop between IFR and VFR.
- However … the “Next Pilot Position” chain is different
- … once I reach “Copilot” I am “stuck” there … so no “loop”
So the logic of “Previous” in “IFR Position” clearly did change … and I see what all of you are seeing. It looks like a bug indeed.
To me the “old” way was not really intuitive … I would expect to be able to “cycle” in “circles” over the views:
- Next Pilot Pos = IFR → VFR → Landing → Copilot → IFR → etc. (loop)
- Previous Pilot Pos = IFR ->Copilot → Landing → VFR → IFR → etc. (loop)
and:
- Next Inst View = Inst 1 → Inst. 2 → Inst 3 → … → Inst Last → Inst 1 → etc. (loop)
- Prev Inst View = Inst 1 → Inst Last → … Inst. 3 → Inst 2 → Inst 1 → etc. (loop)
The FS2020 way (as mentioned by others before) was to allow to “merge” those chains, by preventing a loop in the pilot positions and doing a “previous” Pilot ala:
- Previous = Copilot → Landing → VFR → IFR → Inst 1
Without breaking the position loop there could be no deterministic command logic.
With that, by reusing the same “previous” button, one could “cycle” all the way … from Copilot to Inst. Last
I can see why many people might prefer to prevent looping in the “Position” chain in order to be able to loop with two buttons within and between those two chains.
Personally I do not like (need) that because:
- Pilot position … is a “up-down” logic (motion) to me
- Instrument … is a “left-right” logic (motion) to me
Which is why I do bind different buttons to those actions.
But clearly … there is a change in FS2024 … and most likely it is a bug.
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I agree with you post, @The1l2p … but there was a “complication” in FS2020 as it was not obvious where “NEXT pilot position” would jump to from the Instrument circle.
Sometimes if jumped to “VFR Pilot” … sometimes to a “custom camera”. It was more like the sim maintained a stack of views in different “Camera Contexts” and it jumped back from the “Instrument Context” to whatever was the last in the “Cockpit Context” … so it might return the the “Cockpit-Pilot” or the “Cockpit-Custom” stack.
So basically sometimes in FS2020
- “Next Pilot Position” = “Load Next Custom View”
To me the FS2020 view system was (is) hard to understand as it is not documented and not really (easily) “predictable”. I would prefer a system where using a view change command can be documented.
It was this confusion which triggered my urge to draw a diagram of all the state transitions (see the posting above).
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To be be quite frank - your knowledge, persistence and patience are quite admirable. I truly appreciate your replies and desire to help with this most frustrating issue for some of us. I think I’ll just report it as a bug and go back to FS2020 until this version matures a bit more.
Just wait until you get it all set up like you want and then fire it up the next day only to find that all your custom mappings have disappeared. GRRRR!
That’s what happened to me this morning. I shut down last night and everything was good. Fired up the same plane this morning, making no changes, and all my customized views are gone. Confirmed I was still set to the correct config.
My suspicion is that with everything being streamed now, they can push changes out at any time without us knowing about it. It just shows up the next time you launch.
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Thanks for posting your comment about the way the “quick view left/right” binding is messed up and jumps to zoom forward first requiring a double tap. This has been driving me crazy trying to figure out how to fix it and I haven’t been able to find anything online. I guess it’s just one of the many bugs that will have to be worked out in this version of the sim. Hopefully soon.
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You’re welcome. I just filed an official bug report with the Zen Desk. I must admit though, that I am not holding my breath! 
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Naw, they wouldn’t do that. Would they? 
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I filed one as well on that same issue. It only does it when Cockpit Quick View is in toggle mode. If you use hold mode, it’s fine.
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Thank you. That’s good to hear! I think it could serve as a temporary work-around for me, for now.
By the way, if anyone else wants to try kaha300d’s work-around, the setting can be found under Controls/General/Camera/Global/Quickview.
Correction: Credit for the work-around should go to “TheM00ps”.
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And why did they change all the key bindings? Not only for the camera views, but also for such basic keys like D and B.
By the way: There are rumors that in the next version of MS Word copy/paste will change from Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V to Alt-P and Shift-\
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New to Microsoft, are you?
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I think with all the new walkaround and view modes that they probably needed more keys and wanted to tidy up /rationalise the keyboard layout for new users, which seems reasonable as the old layout was a mess.
If you want the old layout then no issue, they provided that for you as well. Simply go and select the 2020 keyboard profile on the control settings.
Or maybe I’m missing something, I’ve seen lots of complaints about this and don’t really understand why.
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I think you’re absolutely correct. Also, they added new aircraft capabilities that needed special key bindings.
An example of this is the default Cessna C152. I discovered, quite by accident, that my default elevator trim switch on my Saitek Yoke no longer worked. Instead it was bound to that little, I’ll call it “arrestor hook” thing, for snatching/releasing the sky advertising banners off the ground.
Change - I guess I’ll just have to become more accepting and learn how to embrace it better…
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Or change the binding to what you would like it to be.
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I believe that this thread can now be closed. Most of my frustrations, I must admit, are due to my own “headspace” issues and not FS2024’s fault.
After considerable time comparing my FS2020 flight yoke hat switch bindings to my FS2024 ones, I finally discovered my errors.
All is now back to normal - for me, at least!
If anyone would like to try my specific settings on their own controller hat-switches, here is how mine are now configured. Be aware, though, that there is still a programming bug in the “toggle” option for “quick view left/right” (General/Camera/Global/Quick View/toggle or hold). Presently, I recommend that you just select the “hold” option.
POV 
Cockpit Camera - Next Pilot Position
External Camera - External View Look Up
POV 
Cockpit Camera - Previous Pilot Position
External Camera - External View Look Down
Instrument Camera - Toggle Instrument View 1
POV 
Cockpit Camera - Cockpit Quick View Left
External Camera - External View Look Left
Instrument Camera - Previous Instrument View
POV 
Cockpit Camera - Cockpit Quick View Right
External Camera - External View Look Right
Instrument Camera - Next Instrument View
I hope this is helpful!
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So have you managed to get previous pilot position to enter the instrument views rotation? What did you change?
It doesn’t work for me and I have my bindings set exactly as they were on FS20, I used screenshots to copy the settings across.
(please don’t close thread yet, there are others still having similar issues)
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These were the bindings to break into the instrument views, for me.
Also, as requested I changed the flag on the “solution”.
When I use this, it causes it to jump back into the cockpit when i press POV down
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