[COMING SOON] Black Square Advanced Turbine and Piston Dukes

It’s certainly not a bad thing to have a bundle. It’s just less flexible for the customer compared to a coupon. I either have to pay for the bundle from the get go or accept that I’ll have to pay much more to have both variants if I don’t get them at the same time. I don’t see why that’s a weird opinion to have.

Tbh, I’m not that bothered. It’s very rare for any retailer to offer such a thing, and I guess as SinewyDolphin points out, the Bonanza and Baron were a bit of an exception to the rule because they released a couple weeks apart. It is kinda cool though that I can still buy the Baron today for 25% off if I want to, because they gave me a coupon with the Bonanza.

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I think we are pilling up on add-ons and updates waiting for SU15 to be released.
Cmon Asobo & MS IT IS TIME.

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Is there any planned date for SU15?

Yes, I know of at least 2 other devs who are either holding back updates or delaying launching a new addon.

Not that I blame them. Very understandable.

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Not really. Just sometime in April.

Duke Usefuls infos

Piston Duke vs. Turbine Duke Features

(source : JustFlight)

First Look Videos and system overview : (whole JustFlight Playlist)

Here is a summary of videos presenting the aircraft; they represent a rich source of information and provide good support for becoming familiar with various aspects of these new Black Square products.

For those interested in further reading, there is a variety of real-life documentation ( such as POH ) & articles available on dukeflyers.org

If you have any suggestions, please feel free to send them to me in a private message, and I will endeavor to keep this post up-to-date with more useful information !

added:
Dedicated JustFlight forum

Link to the KLN90B by Falcon71 (actual version : v1.0-rc3)
Official BendixKing KLN90B manual → official documentation

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That’s very useful NiKoTin and very well laid out too :+1:

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Many thanks for the info and the links. :+1:

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So watching the startup video and reading the manual again and I can’t see anything that suggests there is a possibility for individual cylinders in the piston version to fail like they can in the A2A Comanche. Nor does it seem to mention anything about if you’ll be able to hear/feel when one or more cylinders are not firing correctly. So I’m guessing that individual cylinders are not simulated to the same depth as the Comanche.

This is not a complaint. Just an observation and a comparison by someone very intrigued.

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Sincerely, I think that there are a reasonable limit on the deep of simulation. To me the simulation of twelve cylinders individually have no sense. Only my opinion, of course.

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For sure. It’s not a make or break. It is kinda cool in the Comanche though, when a cylinder fails and the cockpit starts vibrating like crazy while you hear the engine not firing properly. Reminds me of an old car I had where one of the cylinders would randomly drop out lol.

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:rofl:
Not too bad in a car. But you can’t exactly stop at the side of the sky in the Comanche :slight_smile:

I must admit some concern — there is so much written and focus on the systems and such above, but not a peep about the flight model. :crossed_fingers:

And about single piston failing, if they are modelling spark plugs then you’d think it important that a single (or multiple) cylinders can act differently and that would affect the sounds (and perhaps vibrations) too. I mean if they are going that far into it then why not?

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If they aren’t doing this, I imagine it’s a sim limitation more than anything. I mean A2A did have to basically write their own sim to handle all this - Accusim. But there is certainly nothing in the manual about misfires or individual cylinders failing, and listening to the videos I can’t discern any misfires while the engine warms up like you can in the Comanche - that doesn’t rule it out but I’m inclined to think it’s not going to be modeled. I suspect the spark plugs will simply foul evenly with no change to sound or vibrations, which is much the same as other great non-A2A addons.

The manual says it will fly within 2% of the POH figures. Ofc there is a lot more to flight than the POH figures. I’m not a die hard for completely accurate flight modelling, it just has to feel good in the sim, and a lot of people seem to really like how the TBM feels. I really like how his Caravan feels. So I’m not too worried.

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We get to know the strengths and weaknesses of devs over time. It’s clear to me that BS is a systems centric dev and does very well in those aspects. There are others that are strong on the graphics side such as Carenado and others. It’s hard to master all that’s required when you are a sole dev or small team so for these it’s probably understandable that their products are noticeably stronger in one area rather than another. More time, more experience would likely make that less obvious.

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Imagine MS would for their LLs and FFs subcontract (to work together), Carenado for the graphics, BS for the systems and Boris for the sounds.

One can dream…

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Lol. But then there would be no flight model which is the most important part for many. I suppose we’d need A2A’s Accusim 2 in that case.

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Not related to Black Square Dukes flight model by any means but…speaking of flight models…i like to see more devs collaborate with WB Sim when it comes to flight models.

The WB C172 and C152 have some of the finest flight models in my opinion, specifically when it comes to pitch response. I remember someone mentioning that the WB sim flight models are very reminiscent of the way the flight models in X-plane “feel”.

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Very true.

I’m thinking of grabbing his 172 using my JF rewards after the Duke purchase.

Here my thoughts on Flight Models and how they feel or should feel and what it says about realism:

A 100% realistic flight model would be expected to feel extremly responsive and sensitive in the simulator. Only people with Force Feedback hardware would be able to control the aircraft, so that they would have it feel right. But 99,9% of the simmers would just complain about the high responsiveness and sensivity. It is like in a racing sim - if you try to drive a car on highest realism - you most likely will fail without force feedback controls. You would just constantly overcommand and overcorrect your inputs and you would most likely have no fun.

A 100% good feeling flight model without the use of FFB hardware would be expected to just be not 100% realistic. But most people would just not complain, because it feels rights.

So a Dev always is in a dilemma (not just Black Square). Making a addon feel right or make it realistic. It is absolutely no magic to tune an aircraft to “feel” right. The SDK has advanced in so many aspects already. But it would be still a lot of work.

So in my opinion a dev can never satisfy both kind of simmers, except he would offer two flight models - which would lengthen the production and maybe increase the price.

I was lucky to already got the chance to try the dukes (mostly the turbine version) and they “feel” good to me. I indeed have a FFB Joystick but I don´t use it with actuall ffb from the sim (via external software), so I just use it with a custom force curve on the axis, which makes it a like a Standard Spring loaded Joystick with harder then normal springs but also with a little dampening. I need to pull reall hard to get my stick to its full deflection, but only need very little force in the first few degrees. Such custom behaviour I couldn´t replicate with a standard spring loaded joystick (Virpil CM Base).

A very good example is the recently released F5E by SC Designs. In its release Version it had a very very high but realistic roll rate (around 720° per second). Thats two spins in one second. But people did immediately start to shout out and complain about this “ridicoulous” behavior, because it just felt wrong, despite being just realistic. But in a real F5 you would have to overcome very heavy forces to put the stick to its full left or right deflection.
So SC Design weakend the rollrate in the first patch a little bit to make it feel more right in the sim. But now it might be just not 100% realistic anymore.

Cheers
JayDee

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