Completely turn off camera shake for better mouse operations

Trying to spin the heading/baro knob with the mouse cursor while the plane is moving/shaking is a big pain at the moment and its even worse on planes with stacked knobs - although “camera shake” in options i have switched to “OFF”.
To solve this problem I wish I had an option to turn off camera shake completely, so that the camera doesn’t move in the cockpit at all when the plane is shaking or moving.

Not enough if one uses head tracking.

In that case I recommend mapping a mouse button to temporarily lock the tracking. I do that in opentrack.

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When locking would work properly in the sim. At the moment it jumps back to the default camera position after some seconds. Nevertheless I would be sad if the fix for the issue would be to freeze the camera in order to operate knobs. Breaks the immersion somehow. I never had an issue with pushing buttons only turning knobs does not work for me if the camera is moving around since the mouse have to be above the knob for a longer period of time. Don’t see why the the sim can’t realize that the active input does not change as long as the mouse is not moving. They could just ignore the camera movement while a knob is turning.

Don’t know if my rambling makes sense.

I think a better solution in that case would be to redirect all movement to the same knob until scrolling (or mouse button holding stops). I made that suggestion during alpha, though not because of head tracking (I didn’t use it at the time), but because turbulence causes very much the same issues; the knob moves away from the mouse pointer. Very annoying, especially when it leads to extreme zooming due to scrolling outside the knob!

The reason I think it might be better is it might be disorienting to have the head tracking “suddently” stop, though you might get used to it since you are after all actively manipulating something.

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That I would sign.

quite a conflict of requirements. stopping the movements is a difficult task and
is in conflict with other things.

a conventional and better solution is to use the instrument pop-up function, which exists since the first days of flight sims. What it does, it creates a still extra 2D-window of the instrument you are working on, which is free of shake.

I see this as the only solution so to cover anyone’s need.

However, opening such extra-windows should not be that hypersensitve that conventional usage of the 3D-panel becomes impossible.

honestly, real flying contains such shakings and it is often the case you don’t straight catch the buttons you want. I prefer realsim over supercomfortability for
gadget fiddlers.

another suggestion is that you bring your plane into stabile attitude before you lose track on the plane and start fiddling around gadgets. Any instructor would tell you exactly this.

my solution would be the stop-and-go freelook mouse function which allows you to stop the movement without stopping the flight, and operate the instrument while it is fixed.

I concur this is the best solution but not solely for mouse scroll wheel:

  • Whenever there is a mouse input over a cockpit item the mouse should stick with the cockpit item.
  • It could stick with the item visually with the simulator moving the mouse cursor accordingly.
  • It could stick with the item logically instead. Wherever the mouse cursor is moving relatively to the item, it will continue providing input to the item for a while.
  • The mouse will unstick from the item once the user moves the mouse beyond a certain threshold (this could be variable in size depending on the size of the item) and/or after a certain delay when there is no more mouse input.

This way, whether you’re trying to toggle a button or turn a knob clock wise in clicking to the right side of a knob or when you’re using the wheel, it will work regardless.

I agree the mouse wheel is the most critical because sudden zoom in / zoom out is very distractive, but it is not just the wheel which should stick to the item you’re trying to manipulate, it is any mouse action which should stick instead.

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honestly, real flying contains such shakings and it is often the case you don’t straight catch the buttons you want

Sure, but on the other hand real flying doesn’t involve trying to aim a mouse pointer, your hand may be dodgy in these circumstances, but it’s still far more effective :wink:

I completely agree with your point about external windows though.

I guess the mouse pointer could also move relative to the cockpit/instrument panel instead of the computer screen. So it is not affected by head movement. A similar mode will probably be necessary for VR anyway - if I remember correctly, flyInside had this mode as well.

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I’ve mapped the buttons on the base of my joystick (T16000M) to increase/decrease heading, altitude, vertical speed and speed, for this reason.

it works pretty well, since I’m normally only messing with those when not actively changing stuff on the throttle.

I was playing around with VOR to VOR navigation a bit yesterday though, and I need 2 more buttons to change the course as well :stuck_out_tongue:

Clicking or let alone turning buttons or knobs is indeed some hassle when turbulence occurs. Would love to see one of the options mentioned above implemented while my preferred option would be that at a specific selectable zoom rate the shake affect is reduced to basically zero. The more zoomed in the less shaking. That way everybody could set his or her desired zoom value which stops the swaying and erratic zoom. However I understand this option would only work for those who zoom at all to reach, read and turn knobs and there could be folks with gigantic screen who do not need to zoom at all

Forget about all the previous suggested possible solutions. Just stop the instrument panel from moving at all when the “stop camera shake” option is selected. I don’t have head tracker, but I just simply want to be able to move the mouse pointer onto a control and then not have to watch it to make sure it doesn’t move off. The panel only seems to move when banking the aircraft, in that case the panel also banks and starts moving randomly. Please just stop it moving at all, it doesn’t need to!! It is so frustrating trying to use the knobs when it is moving.

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Ever tried to change the speed for the autothrottle of the Citation longrange in shaky weather?
There is no keyoard mapping for this item. The klickspots are imbecile.

i believe it has been done…1.10.8.0

options, general, camera, cockpit camera, camera shake - turn it off and the camera no longer moves with the banking and pitching of the aircraft…thank god!!! or maybe someone at Asobo…

I recently watched a video on Youtube by a fellow simmer named Russ Barlow. I believe Barlow is a retired real-life pilot so his observations are worth consideration. Barlow was big on the Knobster but that involves an investment and plus the new MSFS 2020 doesn’t come fully equipped to work with that type setup. He too has been talking about the need to address the knob adjustment issue. The idea as mentioned in various ways here is to somehow fix the interaction with the knob in the cockpit. Many of the ideas are great but many tend to just treat the symptom working around the current technology so I want to think out-of-the-box and reinvent it (it’s a Wishlist thing). The real fix is to design a new method of controlling the knobs inside the coding of the simulator and permanently fix this, if practical, difficult or not it needs help. Reading this thread most of the problems of dealing with a knob are well documented from the point of interaction from a computer standpoint, not as in real-life. As an example,

  1. Shaking - I’m a licensed pilot. Except on the smoothest of air do you get to reach over and grab a knob without issue, especially in GA aircraft. In the roughest air you’ll fight to get your hand on a knob when getting tossed like a salad. I have flown in mountain terrain with air so rough my plane was pointed nearly 50 degrees from the path of travel and altitude changes +/- a 1000 feet at a whack. That’s bad enough besides trying to put my hand on a knob. That’s real. So, I wouldn’t want to diminish that experience in the sim. No extra windows and no extra investment, we just need a way to simulate grabbing the knob and adjusting it. That brings us to this…
  2. The difference between grabbing a knob physically (real-life) and virtually (in the sim) – I’ve been flying computer sims since the beginning, literally. When you get all your peripherals setup correctly, usually what is left for the mouse to do can be done with minimal frustration, except for those knobs. I believe most would agree using the mouse for cockpit interaction or making view adjustments isn’t overly frustrating, it’s just dealing with knobs. Of course, as coded we are forced to use them as is or learn some feasible work around but it would be far better if we talk about making it do what we need it to do and then making it happen, fixing the issue once and for all until something better comes along. We’ll need the help of the developers to listen to the ideas. So, let me add another “what if”. This is similar to posts above but I’ll take it a bit further. What if you could code the knobs to recognize the mouse like this… It is the right idea to “lock” the cursor to the knob when an action (adjustment) is required. How to go about that is the trick. If I point the cursor at a knob and then start “turning” that knob, then an action (adjustment) is requested on a specific knob. That is the time to “lock” the mouse to that “function” so even if the cursor leaves the spot on the display designated for that knob (from shaking) the action continues until the adjustment stops, recognized after a specific delay. The spot doesn’t follow the mouse, the function is simply “locked” until a set delay is exceeded AFTER the pilot stops making the adjustment. The logic in coding can be designed to work in this manner. So, you need a delay built in. Maybe 2 seconds of inaction before the cursor is released from that adjustment. As long as the pilot is adjusting the knob the action stays “locked” to that “function” even if the cursor leaves the spot that allows the action to be initiated. So, even if there is shaking, I only need to get my cursor on the spot (a knob) once to start the action. That shouldn’t be too difficult.
  3. Adjustment speed – The other issue is, after initiating the adjustment, being able to quickly adjust the knob in a timely manner. Currently I have to spin the wheel on my mouse like a mad man. It doesn’t happen fast enough. In some coding constant, quick adjustments allow the instrument bug to move faster as the adjustment is made but not all do this, it has to be coded that way. But why am I required to spin a mouse wheel at all, why can I not just simply press a button to simulate spinning the knob? For instance, I typically have 2 buttons for each critical instrument adjustment programmed into my USB keypads I use with my simulators. In MSFS 2020 I use the key commands to INC (increase) and DEC (decrease) the instrument “bugs” for Altitude, Airspeed, Vertical Speed, Directional Gyro…you get the idea. When I press these buttons, unlike my mouse wheel the adjustments are extremely quick and accurate. Now notice, INC/DEC is the key here. That equates also to CW or CCW respectively. Or in the case of an instrument “tape” INC/DEC of the setting. After the mouse button is “locked” to change the setting why can I not simply use the left mouse button for CCW or DEC and the right mouse button for CW or INC just like I do my two designated keypad buttons? This would be intuitive to use in this manner. And remember, as long as I’m pressing one of the mice buttons the adjustment is “locked” until inaction is sensed and releases it, again maybe just a second or two. It would even be nice if a delay “range” could be set to our preference. Pressing either the left or right mouse button would be 200% better than trying to spin that mouse wheel like a mad man. And remember, since the action is “locked” it doesn’t matter where the cursor is on the screen, I don’t have to be looking at it, leaving me free to look out the window and fly while my fingers keep a button pressed making the adjustment with merely a glance at the instrument to get it set correctly. This is much more intuitive.
  4. Finally, pressing a knob – Instrument knobs can sometimes be pressed as when synchronizing the heading bug. Assign this to the center mouse button (the wheel button), forget spinning the wheel. This would also be intuitive and help prevent accidentally pressing the knob while trying to rapidly spinning it.

This kind of coding would permanently solve the issue leaving the reality of shaking the cockpit in place. Just more food for thought.

Regards!

I personally use sim rate to slow down time. because what I can naturally do in real life, it takes just as long using the mouse with slowed down time.

A finger and thumb, takes a few seconds between clicks to update a whole code. In the sim, it’s a bugbear.

so yea, “bullet time” when dealing with the garmin.

We agree! A few post above yours…

This issue will only get worse with VR. Does anyone know how the VR Beta handles “knob twiddling”?
I think it was X-Plane + Knobster which had a small popup menu where you selected the control to be used, then the hardware encoder was used to adjust.
It seems to be like a 2 step approach like this would work well. Click to lock onto a control (with popup if more than one control occupies the same space), then twiddle the mouse wheel, then click again to release the mouse.

I’ve noticed on the Controls setting page there are options for “Cockpit interaction” which sounds like it supports a generic button to control all kinds of cockpit elements, but I can’t get it to do anything.

Do you think the section [DynamicHeadMovement] in the file “FlightSimulator.CFG” is usefull to manipulate and stop the headmovement to solve this issue?

[DynamicHeadMovement]
LonAccelOnHeadLon=-0.020000
LonAccelOnHeadPitch=-0.010000
RollAccelOnHeadLat=0.010000
YawAccelOnHeadLat=-0.100000
RollAccelOnHeadRoll=0.100000
MaxHeadAngle=5.000000
MaxHeadOffset=0.300000
HeadMoveTimeConstant=1.000000