Crash to desktop without error message

Just a few small things like a new volume bar. Its back to the old bar. I few minor improvements to windows looks. Thats all

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A320 FBW experimental patch.

CTD after pressing “Call Tug” in the EFB.

(i6700-980ti-16GB) No overclocking.

a) a mod …
b) these in a experimental version…

and a report about a CTD ???

For MODs we have:

i turned off xbox game bar and windows game mode.No more CTDs until now but still 5-10 sec freezes just before a landing while getting close to the airport

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Sage advice, that!
Also, the comment from MrTonySM about trying to chase down CTDs without error codes.

There are just WAY too many variables in this simulator with its associated hardware/software systems to really know what will DEFINITELY work/not work for everyone.

But it’s still great that we’re all willing to try and share our experiences based on the hope that it might provide a nugget or two of relief for others.

Every now and then someone writes in that they’ve given up on MSFS for now, and are going back to flying whatever…

For me, at least, that’s very sad. I’ve always felt that in this IT business, defeat is absolutely unacceptable.

So… here we all are!

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they wrote it , but not do it :wink:

It does strike me as somewhat contradictory, sometimes, that they take the time to write that in to a forum that is possibly no longer relevant to them. But, hey, we can only accept what they write I think.

we must not lose our “fun” , “optimism” :slight_smile:

Ps: sometime I can understand that user bit frustrated… this goes over and then they are back

My experience has shown that neither of these have any impact on CTD’s.
However, I have found that running the sim at unlimited or too high FPS, thus overloading the GPU especially during landing approaches, has a noticeable impact on flicker and stutters.

I would recommend turning Vsync on and lowering your FPS incrementally to see if it helps…

BTW, I am curious to know what the vertical refresh rate of your monitor is.

Tired of CTDs?

Troubleshooting requires a known baseline. Without it, troubleshooting becomes Snipe hunting.

While not a comprehensive list. The following have been PROVEN to get many users into the air. These suggestions may not solve all your problems. They will get you to a baseline. As long as you do not stray from these tips while messing about trying to find the other demons, you will know that these issues are off the list. Once you can consistently fly until YOU decide to shut down, then the next part of the journey begins. Finding the limits, will be next.

Speeding Causes Crashes

A mediocre system can cruise around photogrammetry cities and hand made airports quite nicely at 40 50 frames per second with high to ultra settings at 1080. I know because I have one of those systems and have hundreds of hours cruising those locations. If you want 4K resolution and don’t want to sacrifice the view, then you will obviously need a faster, more powerful computer than mine. Keep in mind though that a 50% faster CPU/GPU can reproduce 50% more pixels at the same settings and frame rates. If I want to keep my settings and jump to 4K I will need a CPU/GPU combination that is
400% faster than my i5-8400/2070 Super. An i9-10900 will get me that speed jump that I need but that 3090 is only a 100% improvement. The alternative is to crank up that 3090 to get the most performance. Don’t do it, yet…

Not sure if there are any users out there that have any idea how an internal combustion engine works. I’ll bet there are even fewer that remember popping the hood, flipping over the air-filter cover and twisting the distributer a touch so they could beat the guy next to him down the quarter mile. We are the original “tuners” or over-clockers. Given an evening in my driveway I could turn that 98cc mill under the hood of Dad’s sedan into a 150hp weekend warrior.

As we got older and smarter we started to realize that the little tweaks may have made us faster but they also caused excess stress to every part of the car, not just the engine. An extra 25hp would destroy a throw-out bearing in a weekend of double clutching. The same holds true for our 21st century tech. Just because the manufacturer says you can O/C your GPU to extreme settings, doesn’t mean you should.

When putting a new driver behind the wheel, (MSFS), I strongly suggest removing ALL forms of performance upgrade that goes beyond full stock. Once that new driver has proven to be able to smoothly operate your rig, without crashing, then maybe you can start slowly stepping things back up. One at a time. Test extensively. When proven stable, add a bit more. Eventually you will find the new driver’s limit. Back it off a bit and you will have a hi-performance, stable platform to start cruising the skies.

Out of the Box
  1. Bios settings.
    . Disable XMP
    . Confirm that CPU settings are either default or match the recommendations in the CPU docs
    . Start at base timings for memory. Just because the stick says 3600 doesn’t mean it has 3600 chips. It has 2666 chips (most likely). The manufacturer has gone the extra mile to add some circuitry to up the timings and has tested the RAM to be stable at 3600. Hopefully we will get there. AFTER we test at base.
    . If your BIOS has an EASY setting make sure it is set to normal NOT fast.
    . Look for anything “Turbo” and disable it.

  2. Tweaking software.
    . To begin with just install the basic drivers for your hardware. DO NOT install the EXTRAS. Afterburner, RIVA tuner, etc. will just tempt you. You will get there. Remember, this is about getting everything stable first. Then we can start playing.

  3. Double check when Windows is booted up.
    . Click the performance tab on the Task Manager. Your memory and CPU should be at stock speeds.

Leftovers Stinking Up the System

Software conflicts can result in some very difficult to find bad behavior. When we are think that no other software is running, the windows system has a list of services and processes running and loaded that not only use up valuable resources but also can cause undesired results.

One of the sources of these processes is old drivers and devices that we thought were uninstalled but are still being registered every time we boot up. The only way to be sure is to view a list of all devices installed on our computer. When we check the Device Manager it shows every device currently installed, right? Wrong!

Every device you have plugged in and removed is still in the list, just hidden from view. You plug in a webcam. Windows finds the required drivers and loads them. It then tells you the camera is ready for use. When you unplug that camera. Windows removes the cam from the active list but does not uninstall the drivers. Some software even creates virtual devices and shadow drives that are not always removed even when you uninstall the software. All those unused drivers are there until you tell Windows to remove them.

If we want a clean, efficient environment with minimal conflicts and wasted resources, we need to keep the Device Manager clean too.

Delete Unused Entries in Device Manager
  1. Right click on the Computer/This PC desktop icon > Properties > Advanced system settings, click the Environment Variables button. Alternatively, press Win/Start, type env into search and press Enter.

  2. Press the upper New button. Enter DEVMGR_SHOW_NONPRESENT_DEVICES as the variable name and 1 as the variable value. Press OK twice.

  3. Now start Device Manager by right clicking Computer/This PC > Properties > Device Manager. Or type devmgmt.msc into Start or the Run dialog.

  4. In Device Manager go to the View menu and select Show hidden devices . This will repopulate the main window with extra categories like floppy drives and controllers, Non plug and play drivers, storage volumes and shadow copies.

  5. Now all hidden devices are visible you can go through the categories and look for devices you don’t want. The devices that are not in use will have dimmed icons, simply right click on one and select Uninstall to remove the entry.

Running Out of Memory

Although the requirements allow for 16GB physical memory, experience has shown that a bare minimum of 32GB is required to reduce instability. If you do not have 32GB installed the alternative is to use a portion of your storage to emulate RAM. Windows does this using a page file and will store bits of data on the drive when physical RAM starts to run low. While slower than DDR at least the system won’t run out and crash.

Currently the recommendation is for a minimum PF of 8MB and a maximum set to bring your total RAM up to at least 32GB. (eg: if you have 16GB physical RAM, set your max page file to at least 16GB, to bring your total to 32GB.) Make sure the drive you put the page file on has enough space that you will not restrict that setting.

Set Virtual Memory (Page File) Size
  1. Use an administrator account to log on to Windows 10.
  2. From the desktop screen, right-click the Start button to open its context menu.
  3. Click System.
  4. From the left pane of the System window, click Advanced system settings.
  5. On the System Properties box, ensure that you are on the Advanced tab.
  6. Click the Settings button from under the Performance section.
  7. On the Performance Options box, go to the Advanced tab.
  8. Click the Change button from under the Virtual memory section.
  9. On the Virtual Memory box, uncheck the Automatically manage paging file size for all drives checkbox.
  10. From the available list, click to select the drive on which Windows 10 is installed. (C: in most cases.)
  11. From below the list, click to select the Custom size radio button.
  12. In the now-enabled fields, type the minimum and maximum size of the Pagefile in megabytes (MB) according to the physical memory present in your computer.

Lack of Resources Due to Bloating

Not all of us have carefully selected each component in our system. We don’t all hand select our RAM. There are users that don’t know what header the GPU plugs into, and don’t care to know. That is why there are computer vendors out there selling computers that come in a box. I am told that you can actually go to XXXMart and pick up one box for one low price that you just take home, unbox and plug into the wall. All the software you will ever need is right there, just a mouse click away.

This utopian computer world attracts many users. There is a belief that a desktop computer can be as easy as a phone or as fool proof as a game console. Never will that be the case. Never will the day arrive that cutting edge perfectly tuned hi-performance hardware will come preassembled ALL-IN-ONE with an operating system installed. The systems available in that market can be very capable, well built PCs. Unfortunately those ‘capable’ computers come loaded with, not only an operating system but also, a myriad of useless, resource hogging, promotional freeware.

I recently attended an 'unveiling" of one of these PCs. A friend bought his daughter a new PC for her graduation. It was a 10th gen speed demon with 64GB mem and two 1TB SSDs. Dad dropped $4000+US on a beast of a system. For his money, it also came with nearly 500GB of trial ware. When the system booted up, in tablet mode, the desktop was covered in active widgets, that were running everything from realtime weather reports and slide shows to You-Tube previews. I tapped CTRL-ALT-DEL and checked the Task Manager. This system was running with 28% CPU load and 12GB MEM commit, just on the desktop!

The startup folder had 23 entries. The RUN entry in the registry had another 17.

I wonder how many users have out of the box, ready to run systems? I wonder if any of those systems have been cleaned up? I wonder if any of them have ever managed to get MSFS to load to the menu? I wonder if any that did have more than one hour total flight time since installation?

I wonder if any of them know somebody that can turn their bloated, overstuffed sedan into a sleek sportscar?

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Loading a flight and just before touchdown were the two prevalent CTDs after the latest hotfix. I increased my page file and that seems to have solved the problem. 16 GB Ram and set page file to Min 12000 max 22000. So far, so good.

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Yes, for those with 16GB it’s a well known and easy workaround that increasing page file often helps. The reason why is unknown to us of course, but hopefully Asobo staff may know more and may address it in the future.

However I should note that it doesn’t seem to be required in each and every case for 16GB PCs, but only to those who have 16GB and are experiencing CTDs. I was playing MSFS for months before I upgraded (around Christmas) and I had 16GB but the game was working fine despite launching tons of apps alongside MSFS, reaching memory usage of over 90%. A few CTDs here and there were probably related to 3rd party apps such as FSUIPC etc. So in my case I didn’t need to increase page file.

For those with 32GB and above, I’d say increasing page file is most like required only in extreme circumstances, for example I remember reading a post the other day where someone using VR had to use 30+GB of page file on top of his 64GB of RAM.

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I was remiss by not including another couple of important factors that could be contributing to your issues when approaching the airport - Terrain Level of Detail and Object Level of Detail. I found that cranking them down incrementally, also seems to have a direct impact on the stutters and jitters.

And of course everything that willisxdc mentions in his post certainly should be given a try.

Very true!
I have 16GB and as previously mentioned I just leave it for Windows to automatically determine the page file size and I haven’t had a CTD since the very early days of MSFS - and at that time I had my page file turned off. NEVER will do THAT again!
BTW, I have checked my page file size during a few MSFS flights and I never see it rise much above 10-11GB. That probably has a lot to do with my un-demanding MSFS graphics settings - mostly set to low.

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Personally I am starting to feel that Asobo’s attitude towards these problems, is that if 75% of the users don’t have CTD’s, they are satisfied. They can always blame problems on peoples PCs, or add ons, or some other excuse so that they don’t have to solve this problem.

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Why is simple. If you try to load too much stuff and you run out of memory resources, MSFS WILL CTD.
Why some with 16GB don’t have an issue? Again simple. Depending on the settings you have and the area you are flying in, MSFS can be very spartan in its memory use or it can be a glutton. I have 32GB and a 32GB page file. I have watched my commit go as high as 36GB with 4K and x3 LOD. I generally fly 1080 and x2LOD. I will usually see 16-18GB commit. At x1LOD that will drop to 12-14GB.

Increasing the page file is NOT a cure all for CTD. It is not a tweak that is limited to those experiencing CTD. The IDEAL requirement for MSFS is a system with 32GB. If you want to have the best possible experience that YOUR system can offer. Then meet that requirement. It is not difficult and has absolutely NO downside. Why NOT do it?

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I really hope they’ll eventually make a push to address all or most of these issues, because my feeling is similar to yours. As long as some majority of people are happy (with a few of them calling others “trolls” if they’re complaining in these happy forums), then Asobo may be thinking the community is generally happy so the devs are doing a great job.

In some part they do, but there’s a flip side to this: MSFS is unlike other video games, many people would not even call it a “game”. We’re making huge time and financial commitments here, we upgrade our hardware in a period where most hardware is overpriced or hard to find or usually both (especially GPUs), we’re buying 3rd party addons at hefty prices, we’re heavily invested in this software title and want it to succeed. Otherwise our commitment will be bust.

This is why even many of those who say they’re signing off and are dropping MSFS will often revisit it from time to time to see if things have improved. It’s not something you quit on, unless you’ve only been playing via Game Pass for a small monthly subscription.

I believe that with MSFS being around for almost 9 months now, having dozens of CTD reports per week and even more crazy and unheard of workarounds is not acceptable anymore, especially when there doesn’t seem to be any light at the end of the tunnel, nor any substantial updates by Asobo (other than that a few weeks ago they upgraded this discussion from Backlog to Fix ASAP).

In a way I don’t mind MSFS crashing randomly, because all games crash from time to time. I mind it that it can crash in so many different ways, some of which go against common sense or are super-rare among software industry or haven’t even been seen before. Which confirms that we’re dealing with a very unstable game. Which needs to be improved. We’re here to help but patience has limits.

ps: more than 80 votes in March and counting, let’s hope it’s not over a thousand by May and things will be looking better by then

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Haven’t really messed with custom page files, because the CTDs I’m having are not related to memory hogging (the game crashes while in the main menu). But if your recommendation is to set 32768 as my virtual memory, then I’ll happily do it because as you said there is no real downside.

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Many have seen performance improvements and a reduction in stutters, etc. Sure can’t hurt. :slight_smile:

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BTW, I intend to try out your procedure for eliminating the resources associated with non-existent devices. Your instructions are the first I’ve ever run across pertaining to this potential problem area…


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