CTDs on PC - Check your BIOS for updates!

[TenPatrol]

I remember checking CPU performance before the BIOS updates. Before the changes, I tested it the way Intel processors are usually benchmarked—by setting the BIOS so it wouldn’t limit the CPU, allowing it to run at full performance. I used Cinebench R23 for those tests; I typically use 3DMark only for GPU benchmarking, as that’s what it’s mainly designed for.

After installing the updated BIOS and configuring it according to Intel’s recommended settings (i.e., with limits applied), if I recall correctly, there was a noticeable difference in CPU performance.

@WaterLattice34

I ran my benchmarks and nothing has changed…which is a good thing

@WaterLattice34

I bought my desktop from Dell and it’s an Alienware R16 with the 14900KF and it was delivered on 12-1-2024.

Since you bought your system in December 2024 - well after Intel’s microcode and BIOS revisions were released - you wouldn’t have been able to test your own machine “before” those updates, nor directly compare its performance pre- and post-patch.

edit

I found my old benchmarks - one from December 2022, right after I bought CPU and another from August 2024, after the microcode update to version 0x129.

There’s definitely a noticeable drop in scores after the Intel controversy and the subsequent updates. As I mentioned earlier, Intel’s patches had a clear impact on CPU performance.

[WaterLattice34]

@TenPatrol

Since you bought your system in December 2024 - well after Intel’s microcode and BIOS revisions were released - you wouldn’t have been able to test your own machine “before” those updates, nor directly compare its performance pre- and post-patch.

I know that and never said performance was changed on my system with the microcode update. The main point I was trying to make is my CPU has not shown any performance degradation even with the latest microcode update and since I started using my computer.

BTW, the main reason I bought from Alienware was the sale price. I also received Dell credits which I used to purchase a wireless gaming keyboard and mouse. And I got two free games to boot. Indiana Jones and Throne and Liberty.

@TenPatrol

There’s definitely a noticeable drop in scores after the Intel controversy and the subsequent updates. As I mentioned earlier, Intel’s patches had a clear impact on CPU performance.

Thank you for posting the screen shots. I learned something new today thanks to you. I learned Cinebench is free so I gave it a whirl.

I used the default Alienware OC’ing setting which is labeled as performance. While that setting gives the best scores, there is no way to adjust the fans using that preset.

The only way to adjust fan speeds is to use the Custom preset and that has several OC settings, but the scores are worse. However using Custom preset I have been able to adjust my fan curves and prevent throttling. This is the setting I prefer, and I still get great performance.

I know someone made software that eliminates Alienware Command Center and it has many more settings. I haven’t tried it and don’t intend to.

Alienware locks down many settings in the bios so there isn’t much I can change there.

I might be able to improve the CPU scores using Intel’s XTU but I don’t want to mess with it.

Anyways, I also learned I believe you are right that the microcode has decreased scores..

[TenPatrol]

Thanks for your reply! As you probably noticed, my i9 13900K (from 2022, before the microcode updates) was actually faster than your 14900K with the current microcode patches in place. Unfortunately, these microcode updates do impact performance and we as gamers end up paying the price. In your case, it means you paid for a newer CPU that now performs worse in some scenarios.

On some of Intel’s own pages, it was claimed that microcode updates wouldn’t affect the performance of 13th and 14th gen CPUs. Unfortunately, Intel wasn’t honest with us - again. This isn’t funny anymore; it’s downright embarrassing.

That’s actually one of the reasons I ended up switching from Intel to AMD.

[FibroTucy]

Use intel settings and apply a undervolt to get your performance back without any risk of damage. I played around a bit and an undervolt of 0.7 up to 0.8 on my i14900 is working great

[zimtzimt7989]

Hey Guys!

I just wanted to post a little advise for those of you that often encounter CTDs!

If you are running a Intel 13th or 14th Gen CPU, Intel has recently released a mirrorcode update, since they admitted, that there could be a too weak clock-tree-circuit within those Gen CPUs.
Most Mainboards of Generation 600 or 700 did make this update available via. a BIOS Update.

As always, there is no guarantee this will solve anything, but i heard of many users, including myself, they are more vulnerable to rare ctds with those CPU Gens, so updating is always a good idea.

Intel Update Post:

Intel Core 13th and 14th Gen Vmin Shift Instabilty Update - New Microcode...

Updating MSI BIOS:
https://www.msi.com/support/technical_details/MB_BIOS_Update
Updating Asus BIOS:

[Motherboard] How to update BIOS of the motherboard ?(Include different...

Find out your mainboard type:
What Motherboard Do I Have? | CORSAIR.

You can always just google your mainboard type and search for a bios update.

Save flights y’all!

[TenPatrol]

I mentioned this microcode update 12 and 8 days ago

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/ctds-on-pc-check-your-bios-for-updates/719794/15?u=tenpatrol

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/ctds-on-pc-check-your-bios-for-updates/719794/9?u=tenpatrol

But it’s great that you brought it up again, thanks mate.

[JokingCrayon538]

I updated BIOS last week and re-installed MSFS2024 and I still get CTD every time I play. MSFS202 is flawed and a mess. Asobo - fix your embarrassing mess. I should sue you for disappointing me and wasting my time and money.

[WaterLattice34]

Maybe your CPU has degraded and is now junk.

[FibroTucy]

As far as I know CTD is not related with a degraded CPU. You must be concerned when you get BSOD’s.

Correct me if i am wrong.

[johnwhite92]

There are problems with some Intel cpus 13xxx and 14xxx that degrade over time and cause crashes.
In this case, use the Intel warranty and they will exchange the processor for a new one.
Updating the BIOS is highly recommended as the most recent ones minimize the risk of premature wear of these CPUs.

[Swampbuggyguy]

Thank you for the info, I sure would have loved to see this thread before I bought my computer. MSI has bios updates for my board, are there any settings I should change before or after installing those updates? From what you mentioned above I am expecting my bench score to come down.

[WaterLattice34]

Update:

@WaterLattice34

I know someone made software that eliminates Alienware Command Center and it has many more settings. I haven’t tried it and don’t intend to.

I changed my mind and tried the software, and it didn’t help because it gave me the same issues with the fan curves as I posted above.

@WaterLattice34

I might be able to improve the CPU scores using Intel’s XTU but I don’t want to mess with it.

I changed my mind about this too Using the overclock setting with XTU I was able to get a Cinebench score of 38,000. However with the CPU overclocked, when I tried to run MSFS, or run any benchmarks my PC defaulted to the Balanced Preset. Dell is being protective.

[WaterLattice34]

I just want to note that’s the best score I get using Intel’s latest Microcode patch that is included with my latest bios (No XTU Overclocking), and I have the same CPU. Fortunately I have not had any degradation or other issues with the CPU and I bought my PC in December.

[TenPatrol]

After installing a new BIOS and restarting the PC, I always start by reconfiguring the fan curves and the CPU pump. BIOS updates often reset these settings to default, so it’s important to set them back manually.

Once that’s done and you’ve saved the changes, reboot and enable XMP to make sure your memory runs at its rated speed. Then you’re good to move on with any further tweaks or benchmarks.

Below in the spoiler are the BIOS settings I changed right after the whole Intel CPU issue came to light. Keep in mind that some of these settings might be in different locations now, depending on your BIOS version.

For reference, I was using an MSI Z790 Tomahawk WIFI motherboard, Intel i9 13900K

Click to expand

Update BIOS to the latest version.

Go to BIOS settings > Overclocking

CPU core voltage mode - offset mode

CPU Core voltage offset mode [-]

CPU core voltage offset (type) 0.050

Save changes and restart.

Go to BIOS settings > Overclocking > advanced CPU configuration

CPU lite load control - Normal

CPU lite load - Mode 1

CPU under voltage protection - disabled

Long duration power limit (type) 250

Short duration power limit 250

Overclocking > DigitAll Power

CPU Loadline Calibratrion Control - Mode4

Overclocking > CPU features

Intel Virtualization Tech - Disable

Intel VT-D Tech - Disable

(Enable if you run virtual machine application like VirtualBox)

Save changes and restart.

EDIT
At the moment, we don’t have any Intel-based motherboards at home, so I can’t check it directly. But as far as I remember, if you select the “Intel Recommended Settings” preset in your motherboard BIOS, the Long Duration Power Limit and Short Duration Power Limit should both be set somewhere around 250W.

Also, I strongly recommend - or rather, insist - that you install the ME Firmware update. For your motherboard, the latest version is currently 16.1.35.2557.
https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/PRO-Z790-P-WIFI/support

[Swampbuggyguy]

Thank you and WaterLattice for all the great help. I certainly need to take my time with this so it sounds like a weekend project, I will report back, thank you.

[Swampbuggyguy]

So before I made any bios or other changes, I thought why not check the temps in just a generic Cirrus Jet flight over Cuba. I don’t know how to break all this technical information down, but not sure I am thrilled with red temp numbers @ 168 max watts. I suppose I should go ahead and upgrade the bios and firmware and follow your tweaking advice and see where I am at after.

After more extensive reading, I can now see why all of you experts highly recommend all newbies to build a new system from scratch with the most recommended components. I will get there one day.

[TenPatrol]

You’re getting high temperatures while gaming, so follow the steps I mentioned above to fix it.

[WaterLattice34]

These CPU’s we have like to run hot. You only had a 1% hit thermal throttling. I see that too sometimes.

In addition to what TenPatrol suggested I suggest limiting your FPS. My CPU runs much cooler when I do. For example, with FG on my temps average 75c. When I limit my FPS to 30 FPS with FG off, my temps drop to 65c. This is while I am in flight with the CJ4.

[Swampbuggyguy]

This computer is ruined, I can’t even bluetooth the screenshots I took with my cellphone to the computer, after 39 minutes for 10 pictures it gave me an error. All I can say is after the updates and following all of the instructions the Cinebench dropped from 35,800 to 17,900. The CPU temps sure dropped!! I can’t even transfer pictures anymore so I don’t know what to do.

[Swampbuggyguy]

47 minutes for three files…not quite what I was expecting