Disappointed with Microsoft (not Asobo) because of its ridicule sale practice, xbox pass + ingame purchase

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Hello,

I post here to vent my frustration with Microsoft (want to keep Asobo out of this) and its ways to not solve issues that would not cost them anything but instead decide to s***** players/customers.

I went for a 1 month trial for the Xbox pass the 17th of August to give a try and see how the experience goes before buying.

The 19th, besides the bugs that i saw (its still considered a Beta even if the graphics are awesome),
I decide from the market place to upgrade to the Deluxe Bundle (at 108$ CAD + taxes of 15%). They talk about “credits” so i thought i had access to credits that decreased the price.

Little i knew at that time its just a bundle for people with Xbox pass only. This is my first experience with Xbox games and its market.

So this week (yesterday) i see that i could not play the game anymore and after annoying people on this forum about this issue, and after looking on the internet, I realized the 124$ I paid was only for the privilege of having extra airports and plane with the Xbox pass.

Since i have no purpose for this subscription (I only played FS and before that XPlane),
I emailed Microsoft to get a refund so i can buy the full game (at 150$ + taxes which is a lot since our currency weakened).

Microsoft sent me back a short email saying that i kept this digital purchase for too long and is not eligible for a refund.

I reopened the ticket explaining why the mistake and how it would be ridiculous for me to buy a game at 150$ on the top of in-game purchase that i have no use and would be a 100% duplicate. I also asked if i could talk/chat to a representative and make my case that they have nothing to lose in the process.

They replied again with same (automatic?) email that I am not eligible for a refund.

At this moment, i am seriously frustrated with Microsoft which looks like a money grab company.
I waited for a year for this game. I have played simulation games since Flight Simulator 5 and now I am being told that i can put all this money in my **** and have the privilege to re-buy the exact same thing.

Sorry Microsoft, but i will fill an official complaint even if that will likely go nowhere.
And until then I will go back to XPlane.

XPlane is not as appealing graphically as FS2020 but at least:

  • Their flight models are more accurate
  • Their systems are not buggy/incomplete.
  • IFR is accurate there and the autopilot does not try to kill me
  • And finally, as imperfect Laminar Research can be, they are in the sim for the long game;I can trust them to continue to invest in their game for the next 10 years.

Also if a problem like this happens, I know they will resolve it because they know they need to keep their loyal customers happy and they have more than half a brain

Thanks

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tl;dr Can I sell you a bridge?

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So then the next step is to call your bank if you want your money back, and issue a charge-back.

But beware
 Microsoft won’t like that and likely will suspend/ban your account. If you don’t have anything associated with your current account - just make a new one.

Otherwise, you’re up a creek.

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If autopilot tries to “Kill you” you simply may need to learn how to use the autipilot. I’ve flown almost all the way around the world, plus various other flights in every available aircraft, and never once the autopilot behaved in an unpredictable way.

IFR is a million times more accurate than it was in Xplane at launch or even years after launch. After a few glitches are corrected (which are natural with a sim with such scope and complexity), it’ll be better here, much faster.

Microsoft Flight Simulator is already a massively superior product to Xplane out of the box, alleging the opposite means being completely detached from reality.

Xplane simply has more addons, but this is going to close that gap fast and leave it behind with most major addon developers already jumping ship where the money is, which certainly isn’t on Xplane.

So enjoy ranting and rooting for the inferior product. We’ll keep flying the superior one which will reach levels that are completely out of reach for Laminar Research.

Incidentally, the upgrade path is clearly explained. By your own admission you made a mistake. You should not blame Microsoft for it.

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Are posters like you paid by laminar in XPlane DVDs for use as drink coasters to smell up this forum or do people that dense really exist?

You misunderstand/shell out extra money on the marketplace, not reading the T&C or trying to understand how that ecosystem works but it’s somehow Microsoft’s fault? Screaming I WANT TO SPEAK TO A MANAGER AND I DEMAND A REFUND is not always the magical solution


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Yea I surely have no issues with the autopilot, you must be doing something wrong. Only very seldom occurrences the auto throttle increases but i must’ve been going a bit slow so I deactivate the auto throttle and fly manually but I don’t remember the last time it did that as I learned the newer airliners are smarter. Its something you have to acclimate yourself with. Learn the planes’ function don’t let the planes’ function learn you.

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“The flight model is better in X-plane” why do i always hear it? It’s because people repeated that for years, maybe because of ‘blade element theory’ the flight model was advertised for years to be better than FSX, which was true then. But MSFS uses the same system now, only more accurate because it uses more measuring points on the fuselage.

So this anecdotal “X-plane has better flight model” is nonsense, it’s very subjective, and not valid anymore.

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Whats funny is that i complained more about the sales practice and the poor customer service after all the $$$ given to Microsoft

“Incidentally, the upgrade path is clearly explained.” Not really when i saw it in the market store.

I did not expect people would be so sensitive about Xplane VS MSFS.

And by the way, no, IFR is not right, in so many places the RNAV approach makes the plane land way off the runway.
Cessna and other VFR planes are actually OK.I enjoy them. Turboprops are halfway done and the TBM in particular has issues with its engine management (startup procedure, torque which increases as you fly higher etc.)

“So then the next step is to call your bank if you want your money back, and issue a charge-back.
But beware
 Microsoft won’t like that and likely will suspend/ban your account”

Thanks for the advice and warning me Microsoft can’t take this kind of situation like a grown up person.

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Does the upgrade not apply to the standard version you buy outside of game pass? Then you’ll retain the upgrade? Or is this not true

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I flew small VFR planes in what were supposed to be typhoons with 60+ kts around Taiwan couple of weeks ago and it was just way too easy. That’s nonsense

I have no idea about that, if it works, then great Kjdsider2 (even though would be still more than buying the deluxe bundle outright). I will be able to come back in some months, buy the standard edition and cross the fingers the complex planes and weather are done right.

Thanks

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The underlying flight model is the same, how the weather model affects that and what the variables are can be finetuned or changed. That’s what they’ve done with X-plane too in the past.

With the flight model i mean how they measure and calculate forces. It’s the same thing, they showed us they use blade element theory in one of their videos.

FSX had no flight model like this so X-planes flight model was superior. But in the end it’s all bad because flying in a sim is nothing like real life.

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You retain the digital purchase linked to your MS username so if you buy just the upgrade pagakes they will stay with you and apply as soon as you purchased the base game.

Not @Kjdsider2 Honestly I don’t understand why people think that just because you have gamepass it will waive the required base game restriction and allow you to get the whole game for cheap. No other digital gaming platform does this when you purchase a subscription.

Anyhow, if you purchase ANY game while a member of gamepass you get 20% off so the base game purchased through gamepass is $48 + tax.

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Let’s decompile this incongruent comparison quickly.

  1. Opinion. As a current CPL holder with nearly 2,700 hours logged I find the flight model to be pretty spot on with many default aircraft.

  2. XP11 has been out for how long now? 4 years? How’s their Vulkan implementation going? Seriously though, I would certainly hope they have fine tuned their SDK given the time they’ve been in production.

  3. You made the same point twice.

  4. XP is a platform that has tried to offer more than just a third party experience for many, many years and have yet to complete that task. I don’t need to fiddle around with four different programs to get a mountain to appear properly - nor spend $50 on a standard resolution state. Again, XP11 has many years on MSFS in terms of production state - I respect your faith in Laminar - as a former XP user (since 9), but I strongly believe in MSFS dominating as a platform that requires less long term investment to “make it look and fly good”.

I continue to be baffled by those who spent $120 but conveniently forget their total expenditure on XP11/P3D - and I’m hedging my bets on the vast majority exceeding that initial investment two fold or more.

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i said retain the upgrade, not ability to play the game. I was asking to see if he could just buy the base to continue using the upgrade, like you mentioned in your first point.

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He can. Is that not what I said? If you buy the upgrade it stays with you so at any time you can buy the standard and have the full game.

The second part was not directed at you, hence the Not in front of the @Kjdsider2.

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I actually had no idea how to read that. Anyways, your explanation of the sitar ui on makes sense to me. At least he doesn’t lose th add on that he bought so all he needs to do is replace the game pass standard version.

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I had to read this multiple times to understand the issue.

The problem is you purchased to upgrade the game when you merely had a “free/preview” version offered by subscribing to Game Pass. So you never technically BOUGHT the game and when purchasing the upgrade to the Deluxe Bundle using the in-game marketplace, while your game may have been upgraded to the Deluxe edition - You don’t actually own the license for the base game itself.

So once your trial period of Game Pass expired, your original game license expired. You would have needed to BUY the vanilla game version offered at the discounted game pass price FIRST, before purchasing the Deluxe Edition upgrade.

Per the “Digital Game Purchase Refund Terms” linked here: https://support.xbox.com/en-US/help/subscriptions-billing/buy-games-apps/digital-game-purchase-refund-terms

You may need to go through Xbox support, and not Microsoft support for a refund, if you originally tried requesing through Microsoft directly. That link above will show another link (https://support.xbox.com/en-US/help/subscriptions-billing/buy-games-apps/refund-orders) to begin the refund process.

I am not seeing anything on the Xbox side where there is a specific amount of time you are allowed a refund. The phrase “All sales are final” is in there, meaning you technically cannot get a refund - but further in the terms states that they understand there are extenuating circumstances where you may be eligible for a refund.

When you said that you “kept the digital purchase too long” making you ineligible for a refund, smells as if they are not sure under which policy refunding the game either under the Microsofts Terms or Xbox’s own terms. They align pretty well however Xbox’s policies are seemingly better given my previous experiences with them.

Keep pushing the issue
 contact both Microsoft and Xbox support, use the links I provided for more info.

BUT DO NOT contact your bank for a charge-back, unless contacting Xbox/Microsoft Support does not yield any results. This will result in your Microsoft/Xbox account to be suspended/banned, as per the terms you agreed to upon purchase - “All sales are final”.

If Flight Simulator is the only game/app on such account and more worried about getting your money back, then by all means.
Also keep in mind any future purchases, may not be performed using the current payment method as they can blacklist it should you choose this route.

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