Discussion: January 21st, 2021 Development Update

Still there at #4 on the wishlist :eyes:

It would be nice to rename some of the bug & wishlist entries to make the lists easier to read & understand, but I also realise that will make it harder to cross-reference the lists back to the original threads.

Lol my bad

Yeah, I’m really amazed of these world updates. They add a ton of content for free. 70 POI, 5 airports, 5 photogrammetry cities, all of those are additional content that most would charge money for!

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That’s still not a totally fair comparison due to a multitude of reasons.

Do you have a source for that? Everything I have read so far says that a spin usually means one wing has stalled.

Edit: Just saw that you did have a source. Also, an interesting discussion: faa knowledge test - In a spin, are both wings stalled? - Aviation Stack Exchange

It was delayed for February 2nd

Do we know which cities have been updated? The Forth bridges next to Edinburgh look fantastic so really hoping Edinburgh is one of them. Would love to see Edinburgh airport too although I was hoping Orbx would have offered their version by now unless they are involved with this world update given they have a partner video due out next week.

There are a couple of things you can accurately test objectively without flight technical error.

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If I see the diagram drawn by the person in the first post I’m already done reading (a wing does not become a helicopter rotor in a spin :joy:). But well if you see the flightpath of an aircraft in a spin its not hard to visualize the angle of attack on both wings have exceeded the stalling angle by a considerable margin. Its unthinkable one wing is still flying, in that case I would expect the difference in lift would pull the aircraft into a spiral dive rather than a spin. Also on most aircraft you need to keep the yoke all the way in your stomach to prevent the aircraft from recovering itself, no doubt the aircraft is stalled in such a situation. Does seem the FAA and my EASA ATPL textbooks agree on this subject. According to the ATPL Oxford textbooks:

“the angle of attack of both wings is well above the stall angle” and “During the spin the wings remain unequally STALLED.”

It is interesting to see how much disagreement there can be even amongst pilots, also often the case on this forum. Everyone with a pilot license is a self proclaimed expert and “gods gift to aviation” :joy:. Often the subject is not completely black and white as there are many airplanes with many characteristics. If I read something I disagree with I usually first look it up again myself. Meaning you are 100% sure about something does not mean you are right. Often in discussions like this it is also a matter of definition.

To further illustrate using Cl and Cd graphs:

And yes I do realize that in my own drawing one wing is exactly on the Cl max. point or a-critical :joy:.

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You can download a great version of Edinburgh for free though right now (photogrammetry):

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Thanks. I knew it had been partially done by another author but didn’t realise someone else had worked on it. I’ll check this out this weekend and great the bridges are separate since we know they will be in the next update.

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Come to think of it, yeah most other publishers would turn it into DLC, or even 2 separate DLCs. To be honest I expected this to be the case with MSFS too. I’m glad it isn’t. :open_mouth:

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read the topic I created here on the forum comparing fly by wire with defult a320
Apparently, many of these fixes have already been made (related to the a320), however, the fly by wire mod is not yet following the mesams

read the topic I created here on the forum comparing fly by wire with defult a320
Apparently, many of these fixes have already been made (related to the a320), however, the fly by wire mod is not yet following the mesams.

That’s my point. I think you are nitpicking based on semantics. It’s not inherently wrong to say that one wing is stalled in a spin. It simplifies a complex maneuver for a quick video and is something people can disagree upon based on how you define a stalled wing.

I believe pretty much every source is very clear in this regard. Also there is only one (correct) definition of a stalled wing, that is an angle of attack passed the stalling angle, critical angle of attack or Cl max. all three define the exact same point on the curve (the point where flow separation occurs).

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I don’t think its as clear cut as a binary stalled or not stalled wing.

18 Stalls and Spins (av8n.com)

“Therefore it makes perfect sense to say that the sections near the roots are stalled while the sections near the tips are not stalled. If only a small region near the root is stalled, the wing as a whole will still have an increasing coefficient of lift — and will therefore not be stalled.”

Exactly! That is what I’m saying. A wing AOA passed the stalling angle / alpha critical / CL max. is considered being stalled, the part of the wing actually experiencing airflow separation is irrelevant. Most wings are designed to stall at the root first by applying wing wash-out or different camber profiles. Ok very theoretically speaking, the critical alpha / stalling angle is a slight fraction before the Cl max. point, you can have that one, for all practical purposes they are the same. The point remains that there is no question about both wings being stalled in a spin.

But we keep arguing about this one comment out of multiple comments I had regarding the aerodynamics video.

I’m actually more interested in why they chose to include an option for the user to adjust control surface authority, in real life you can’t adjust the flight control stops so why would you in the sim? The wear option is nice because the only way we can objectively assess flight model accuracy is by comparing performance with the published AFM.

They might have solved the wrong flight dynamics causing an up-force on the horizonal stabilizer in flight, we have to wait and see, it seems like the down-force is transitioning into a stabilizer up-force during flap retraction but the video doesn’t run for long enough to see this happening. So maybe, maybe not.

Although I’m not sure if this is accurate, maybe when extending flaps at Vmo :sweat_smile:. Within the normal speed envelop I doubt half of the wing has a negative angle of attack and therefore a negative lift coefficient…

So I’m hopeful multiple inaccuracies have been fixed next update. I hope the broken stall characteristics have been solved as well. After some update it became possible to stall the aircraft with power off, keep the yoke full back and steer using ailerons, even rocking the wings using full aileron input without dropping a wing, it doesn’t seem possible to stall a wing using aileron input by exceeding the local angle of attack in the current version. I’m not sure but I believe it wasn’t like this in the release, it happend after some update.

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We continue to make progress with the teams at Working Title, Fly By Wire and others and are hopeful to present news about this soon – it is, after all, your #1 Top Wish.

This has been teased for the last several Dev blogs, but it always stays very diffuse. Could you maybe be a bit more specific about where this collaboration could lead to? I guess there is no final decision about that but maybe just tell us the different ways to go that you are thinking about (incorporating mod content into the base game, get the mod into the official store, …).

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