I agree with you…totally ! A separate product would be the cash cow for someone. This one is limited by the inclusion of XBox.
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Yep Redbird makes devices and at one point IIRC they even offered the option of Xplane Pro or P3D. These were 3DOF but motion was not a requirement for the class they are approved in. They are approved at the lowest level of device, the Aviation Training Device which grew out of the old PCATD specification. As such it is limited on what can be done in these devices, unlike a FFS where you can earn a type or even a ATP.
Russia also made a 737 sim approved by their aviation authorities that used FSX on a 6DOF platform. But, that and the home built devices are more of the exception. Most of the builders of FSDT and FFS use proprietary software. I really doubt the big builders are going to abandon their decades of visuals development to shoehorn in a video game.
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Those clouds look horrible.
I think there might just maybe a bit of a price difference.
MSFS … Microsoft Flight Simulator <— where do you see game in that it says right there in the title Simulator!!! Bwwhahahhahhhahhahh!
BubbaBlitz,
This has been discussed over and over and over and over… The end result from almost all parties was that it is both a Flight Simulator and Flight Simulator Game. The PC and XBox owners, as expected, have different opinions. Also it is called: MSFS Game Of the Year Edition
..
And from XBox News: Nov 18, 2021 — The Microsoft Flight Simulator: Game of the Year Edition features five new handcrafted aircraft, eight new airports, six new Discovery …
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And the content that you watch, how are the creators paid?
That‘s an MSFS problem. The sensitivity curve settings here are ridiculous. Our controls are way too sensitive and the aircraft behaviour with default settings is hilarious. I HOPE the developers will eventually correct this as they claim their technology to create flight dynamics was so advanced. Currently we set the behaviour of the planes we fly to our liking instead of the aircraft developer adjusting it to correct behaviour. Totally pointless and in this regard I fully support the word „arcade“. In a simulation this must not happen.
Especially because visuals are not that important when training to break out of the clouds at minima.
In-video sponsorship messages usually the end. For my fav websites I have a whitelist and for my super favs I pay - for example lifetime Nexus membership.
Also updated the uBlock database so now it blocks ads pretty much globally. The Chinese adblock list works very well.
That’s fair. Good on you!
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Not really the point of such device, visuals are actually not that inportant.
Thanks, I actually dont mind ads - I know their purpose for the creators both on websites and videos. The problem is HOW the majority of ads are deployed - pop ups, pop unders and the worst of the worst - pop up video ads that FOLLOW you in a small screen as you scroll. Its the annoyance of how they are thrown at us that makes many to go nuclear and use blockers.
Some websites do ads well - for example in a neat row across the bottom, or a neat scroller across the top. If I like a site I disable uBlock to see what its like with ads and if it does not ambush with crazy pop ups I add to the whitelist!
Of course there are exceptions - flightsim.to I immediately added to the whitelist. Even if they had 100 pop ups I will never block their ads because their free service is so great collecting all those mods!
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LOL settle down I was making a joke…dont have jokes where you come from huh? Sorry if I got you panties in a bunch…
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Just wanted to make sure you were informed. It appeared you were not.
OK, back in the cabin for a relaxing evening by the fire and a few game flights.
You think he’s using real weather in that 20 million dollar level D sim?
And try using VR instead of a screen.
As said, with the improvement mod the figures are pretty realistic.
Speaking for the default 172 using a HC alpha yoke it feels pretty close to the real thing.
Not really… if you pull to the point that your sensitivity curve starts to accend, a situation that is realistic to expect in the real airplane, every aircraft in the sim jumps the nose up, improvement mod or not. It’s sim design and so we’re more or less limited to 1/2 controller axis travel. It’s where you’d control the plane during normal flight but when you land a small single engine plane you pull back that stick or yoke a lot. In the sim your nose points straight up into the sky.
Edit:
Something has changed significantly since I have reinstalled the sim on my new PC. I wanted to record a video to show you what I meant but it behaves completely different now for some reason. I need to check my DC-6 I guess… ouha!
Saw a post on Reddit where someone had almost full blown A320 hardware with MSFS for the visuals, that thing looked like it cost a pretty penny.
Flight Sim fans who do real flying often have endless money and are born from money. Playing with real airplanes, having a pilot-daddy to develop early airplane fascination, paying 10k for PPL + $100k for CPL, renting or even buying real airplanes etc. is a hobby for the super-rich. Only few underdogs develop a fascination for avionics, flying, and airplane technology.
That´s why there are so many “my new home cockpit in the 25 bedrooms summer cottage is finally finished, cost was $40.000 for the hardware, here look in this computer I have four RTX3090 with Sli, getting the real airbus front section delivered to my house which is the base of the home cockpit cost 500k…” videos on YouTube. 
And that´s what I meant - flight simming will unfortunately never be like this because if you are not a millionaire or at least “upper-class” you are not able to buy the front section of an airplane or a real cockpit simulator to fill one of the rooms in your house, but only a laptop or a computer and a VR headset
The good news is VR flying is so very close to the real thing.
The only problem VR has to master yet is being able to really touch knobs and switches in a virtual cockpit, the sensors of VR hand devices tend to wobble and twitch around all the time.
The second problem is the scaling and the sense of size and depth - with bad VR programming some objects only have half the size of the real-life object. Good VR games or sims have a correct sense of size and depth (the best VR games with realistic proportions and sizes were “The Inpatient” with no 150cm dwarf-humans but fully realistic sizes, and Gran Turismo Sport.)
Instead of hoping the future of flight simming will be having a real cockpit stationed in your living room - better think of buying a VR headset. That´s way more cheap and looks almost as good as sitting inside a real airplane. And what is most important VR is fully 3D.
Such a cockpit simulator like in the video only gives a flat experience on the screens mounted around the cockpit windows. It´t nothing more than a fancy looking cockpit plastic replica with some bad 2D FS2004 graphics running on these screens.
But with a VR headset you can really look outside the window of your virtual plane and feel the depth under the wings and everything is fully 3D around you with the fantastic Flight Sim 20 visuals.
Nothing beats the experience a VR headset can give. Not even a cockpit simulator.
Seems to be a perrenial question with the desktop sim crowd these days: “is this thing as good as a level D sim or is it just a game?”
I’ve thought about it a lot, as a sim enthusiast who has also been flying real airplanes - from GA to major airline - for 2+ decades. I’ve also taught in a couple different models of level D sims for the airlines, at the same time I was a line captain and check airman in the aircraft. So I’ve seen all sides of this.
What I’ve decided is, desktop sims - including MSFS - are simply tools. They are what they are; they’re capable of what they’re capable of. What you do with that is up to you. I think that right there is the value and the fun of them.
Can they be a “video game” in the literal sense of being software that is used for enjoyment / entertainment? Well of course - even the hardest-core “simmers” do it because they enjoy it, right?
Can they be a “video game” in the more derogatory sense of being software that’s used for frivolous and unrealistic fun, with no educational value? Sure. Bet we all do that too. I was re-creating the other night in the sim a low-level river run I used to do in a Stearman in reality, and instead of pulling up and over the railroad bridge, I flew under it. I would never, ever, even in my youngest and dumbest days way back then, have flown under something in reality. I learned nothing from it in the sim. It was just a bit of fun. Same as someone trying to land an airliner on a carrier, let’s say. Zero real-world value to that; just fun. Is that a bad thing, fun? I don’t see why.
Can this software also be a “simulator” in the sense that it can allow you to replicate real-world flying, and actually deliver some training value? Yes, it can, but as with any other training tool, its use must be controlled by someone who understands its limitations, or negative training could result. (That can of course be the user himself.) As I see it, its limitations are firmly on the VFR, stick-and-rudder flying side of things. No matter how good the 3rd party add-on, desktop sims cannot accurately replicate the experience of controlling any particular airplane. There’s no motion, we’re all using different controls with different sensitivity settings, there’s no control force feedback, etc. Practicing landings in a sim in the same model of aircraft you’re training in in real life is not productive. You aren’t getting better at landing a Cessna or Piper; you’re getting better at landing your desk with a Thrustmaster or Honecomb device clamped to it ;).
To be fair, it’s worth pointing out that even level D sims have limits here. Even a 25 million dollar, full-motion box that is an exact replica of a specific aircraft, with force-feedback controls, cannot REALLY replicate landing the aircraft. Yes it’s good enough to get a type in, but there’s a reason a newly-typed pilot isn’t just turned loose to fly the line, but is required to conduct OE (operating experience) with a check airman. I’ve done plenty of this, and a new-hire’s first landing in the jet is a very new experience for them, no matter how comfortable they were “flying” the sim.
It’s simply not possible to 100% accurately replicate flight. At some point, you actually have to fly. So as someone above pointed out, if even a $25 million level D sim can’t REALLY do it, how much expectation can we put on a $60 one?
Now, here’s the thing: can the desktop sim with decent controls come close enough to feeling like flying an airplane to achieve a level of “suspension of disbelief”, and actually allow us to feel like we’re flying when we know we really aren’t? Yes it can, and here’s the fun! Even a specific airplane can be approximated; I’ve tuned the control feel of the in-sim Stearman to the point that it makes me smile every time I slip it into a nice grass strip on a summer day - it’s nice to have that experience in January! Is it really training someone to fly a Stearman? No, you’d groundloop in 3 seconds of trying to taxi the real thing ;). But the sim allows you to experience it to at least some degree, and I think that’s a hell of an achievement.
And then there’s procedural training, and THIS is where real training value can be found in a desktop sim. Procedures CAN be replicated pretty exactly. And so, I think desktop sims are slanted heavily towards being “useful tools” for IFR flying. You don’t need a sim that flies exactly like your Bonanza in real life, to get real value out of an IFR trip in the MSFS modded bonanza on VATSIM. You just need a sim that flies something like a generic “airplane.” The sim achieves this.
And so, if you’re someone working on an instrument rating, or a newly-rated instrument pilot without much experience, you can fly a trip in the sim. You can practice filing and picking up a hold-for-release clearance at your home airport. You can practice departure setup, checklists, using a reminder that you need a release. You can practice your scan during the exact instrument approach procedures you’ll use in real life. The scenery is good enough that you can even practice recognizing the first visual cues on breakout. You’re practicing your 3d situational awareness and your ATC communication the entire flight, because VATSIM is very, very good.
That IS real training; it’s not make-believe or a “game” at that point.
This software can be many different things, to even the same person. It all depends what we want to make of it at the time. And I think that’s why it still fascinates me.
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