Easier-to-use instrument and avionics knobs when the aircraft is moving

I don’t know if other people have had difficulty turning the knobs on the G1000 and other avionics, but I struggle to use it, especially in-flight when the aircraft is bouncing around. You try clicking on a knob and then the aircraft moves slightly and your cursor is now off the knob. If you’re turning the knob with your mouse wheel, when the aircraft bounces, all of a sudden you find that you’ve now zoomed in or zoomed out.
I know there are a couple of Wishlist requests for key bindings for various cockpit elements, and I have voted for those, too. But if people want to use the mouse, I’d like to be able to do that without getting frustrated.

CM Edit: There have been proposed solutions and suggestions in different threads which I am combining here, outlined below:

1 - Sticky Mouse by @r2p42

A thing which bugged me in other sims as well unless you are able to pop out instruments is that the mouse cursor does not rest on switches or knobs when the camera is moving. In real life one can hold onto a knob while turning it even if the plane is shaking a bit. But in a sim, especially if head tracking is used, it is nearly impossible to keep the mouse in position until the correct pressure, frequency and what not is dialed in. Which results offen in zooming in and out.

I would suggest some sort of sticky mouse which grabs onto a control surface regardless of camera movement as long as the mouse itself is not moved by the user.

2 - Turn off Camera Shake for better mouse operations by @MrMartin0815

Trying to spin the heading/baro knob with the mouse cursor while the plane is moving/shaking is a big pain at the moment and its even worse on planes with stacked knobs - although “camera shake” in options i have switched to “OFF”.
To solve this problem I wish I had an option to turn off camera shake completely, so that the camera doesn’t move in the cockpit at all when the plane is shaking or moving.

3 - Add Child Window with NAV Radio inputs by @TanveerVGHS

In a real aircraft the knobs and switches are fairly stationary relative to a pilot’s hand during use. However, in the Simulator the airplane moves while the users mouse-pointer (representing a Pilot’s hand) remains stationary. This creates a relative motion between the knobs & switches and the mouse-pointer which is unrealistic. Having flown 1100+ hours on VATSIM (my ID 1009883), I routinely experience high workload situations where this relative motion makes it difficult, time consuming and error-prone (=frustrating) to manage everything. Near the end of a great enjoyable flight on MSFS, the positive experience gets severely effected by this issue.

Desired feature: Consider adding a child window (like VFR map or ATC window) with NAV radio inputs (frequency, NAV1<->2, CRS, Stby<->Active) and G1000 flightplan related inputs (zoom, direct-to a waypoint).

4 - Various mouse improvements by @SunlitTax368497

Using the mouse wheel to turn knobs, flip switches or change levers can be useful, but there are a few issues with it:

  • Using freelook (e.g. by holding right-click) and scrolling to zoom in/out can sometimes inadvertently trigger plane controls if you’re pointing the center of the screen at a control (but you don’t even know where exactly you would trigger something, since there is no cursor or crosshair or anything)
  • Trying to scroll a control, but missing it, will zoom the camera, which is technicially correct, but a bit annoying, since you then have to zoom in again to re-aim for the control

The most important improvement:

  • Never trigger plane controls when mouse wheel scrolling while the cursor is not visible (freelook)

Other things that could be useful, probably optional as a setting:

  • Never zoom when mouse wheel scrolling while the cursor is visible (definitely only optional for this one)
  • Add a bit of a zone around controls, where scrolling will not zoom
  • Add some kind of crosshair when in freelook, so you know what you’re pointing at for changing controls (could also help for clicking to change controls)

5 - Lock to Cockpit Control to Prevent Zoom by @Parorng

I propose when changing a frequency or autopilot knob, that zoom be inhibited whilst continuous mouse wheel scroll inputs are made. This could be implemented in a few different ways:

This could be time based approach (Zoom is inhibited whilst the mouse cursor a control as it is now, but requires 1 or 2 seconds of no mouse wheel movement to unlock the zoom, or another control again)

Or perhaps a requirement to right click the mouse to unlock zoom again after a knob is turned. Mouse wheel movements would change only that control until the right mouse button was pressed to unlock it again.

Another way to do this would be a requirement to hold down the right mouse ‘cockpit look’ button whilst zooming - although this may be difficult for some.

Another would be a modifier key to be pressed to lock the mouse selection onto a control whilst it is pressed, regardless where the mouse moves to. This has the downside of requiring a key or button or mouse button to be pressed and would need careful consideration so that a control could be changed whilst still flying with a joystick.

6 - Eliminate all areas near Control Elements by @Sath68

There are enough areas where zooming doesn’t affect buttons and knobs. Just eliminate all areas near control elements. The Garmin displays are also ok.

A thing which bugged me in other sims as well unless you are able to pop out instruments is that the mouse cursor does not rest on switches or knobs when the camera is moving. In real life one can hold onto a knob while turning it even if the plane is shaking a bit. But in a sim, especially if head tracking is used, it is nearly impossible to keep the mouse in position until the correct pressure, frequency and what not is dialed in. Which results offen in zooming in and out.

I would suggest some sort of sticky mouse which grabs onto a control surface regardless of camera movement as long as the mouse itself is not moved by the user.

I hope that makes sense.

4 Likes

I’d settle for actually being able to turn off the ‘head movement’ altogether. I’ve turned “shake” off but I still get movement when changing attitude, which as you say makes it impossible to use clickable controls or scroll things without infuriating zoom changes.

But I would like to keep the head tracking running when changing frequencies.

Adding my +1. I’ve turned off camera shaking, but the mouse still loses focus on knobs such as Heading as the plane starts turning. This results in the mouse wheel zooming the view instead of adjusting the knob. This is unrealistic, as in real-life the pilot won’t lose grip on the knob when the plane moves.

I removed the zoom function from my mouse wheel. That is acceptable for me but not for someone which does not own a head tracker…

1 Like

There are enough areas where zooming doesn’t affect buttons and knobs. Just eliminate all areas near control elements. The Garmin displays are also ok.

Trying to spin the heading/baro knob with the mouse cursor while the plane is moving/shaking is a big pain at the moment and its even worse on planes with stacked knobs - although “camera shake” in options i have switched to “OFF”.
To solve this problem I wish I had an option to turn off camera shake completely, so that the camera doesn’t move in the cockpit at all when the plane is shaking or moving.

Not enough if one uses head tracking.

In that case I recommend mapping a mouse button to temporarily lock the tracking. I do that in opentrack.

2 Likes

When locking would work properly in the sim. At the moment it jumps back to the default camera position after some seconds. Nevertheless I would be sad if the fix for the issue would be to freeze the camera in order to operate knobs. Breaks the immersion somehow. I never had an issue with pushing buttons only turning knobs does not work for me if the camera is moving around since the mouse have to be above the knob for a longer period of time. Don’t see why the the sim can’t realize that the active input does not change as long as the mouse is not moving. They could just ignore the camera movement while a knob is turning.

Don’t know if my rambling makes sense.

I think a better solution in that case would be to redirect all movement to the same knob until scrolling (or mouse button holding stops). I made that suggestion during alpha, though not because of head tracking (I didn’t use it at the time), but because turbulence causes very much the same issues; the knob moves away from the mouse pointer. Very annoying, especially when it leads to extreme zooming due to scrolling outside the knob!

The reason I think it might be better is it might be disorienting to have the head tracking “suddently” stop, though you might get used to it since you are after all actively manipulating something.

2 Likes

That I would sign.

quite a conflict of requirements. stopping the movements is a difficult task and
is in conflict with other things.

a conventional and better solution is to use the instrument pop-up function, which exists since the first days of flight sims. What it does, it creates a still extra 2D-window of the instrument you are working on, which is free of shake.

I see this as the only solution so to cover anyone’s need.

However, opening such extra-windows should not be that hypersensitve that conventional usage of the 3D-panel becomes impossible.

honestly, real flying contains such shakings and it is often the case you don’t straight catch the buttons you want. I prefer realsim over supercomfortability for
gadget fiddlers.

another suggestion is that you bring your plane into stabile attitude before you lose track on the plane and start fiddling around gadgets. Any instructor would tell you exactly this.

my solution would be the stop-and-go freelook mouse function which allows you to stop the movement without stopping the flight, and operate the instrument while it is fixed.

I concur this is the best solution but not solely for mouse scroll wheel:

  • Whenever there is a mouse input over a cockpit item the mouse should stick with the cockpit item.
  • It could stick with the item visually with the simulator moving the mouse cursor accordingly.
  • It could stick with the item logically instead. Wherever the mouse cursor is moving relatively to the item, it will continue providing input to the item for a while.
  • The mouse will unstick from the item once the user moves the mouse beyond a certain threshold (this could be variable in size depending on the size of the item) and/or after a certain delay when there is no more mouse input.

This way, whether you’re trying to toggle a button or turn a knob clock wise in clicking to the right side of a knob or when you’re using the wheel, it will work regardless.

I agree the mouse wheel is the most critical because sudden zoom in / zoom out is very distractive, but it is not just the wheel which should stick to the item you’re trying to manipulate, it is any mouse action which should stick instead.

5 Likes

I’ve got this setup pretty much dialed in. The joystick is great; the HOTAS is adequate to good.

What I’ve done is to bind the VS Hold and Increase/Decrease functions to the set of three buttons on the right, and the Heading Hold and Increase/Decrease heading functions on the left set of three. That leaves two more rows of three on each side, plus the four buttons on the stick itself plus the hat. It’s removed much of the frustration of trying to deal with clicking the mouse while being jostled around on approach on a hot day.

Also, once you get a circular arrow hovering with the mouse, you can hold the left mouse button down to make the knob “twist.” Maybe everyone but me knew this; I just discovered that this weekend. That’s helped a bunch too, especially when on the ground setting up the aircraft during preflight prep.

I have a Virtual Fly G1000 that’s waiting around for compatibility with the sim. So I’m all set. (Or, more accurately, I will be all set.) But this wishlist item is less about me and more about the general usability of the sim.
And I didn’t know about the mouse thing until yesterday when I saw a YouTuber do it. So you’re not the only one!

2 Likes

honestly, real flying contains such shakings and it is often the case you don’t straight catch the buttons you want

Sure, but on the other hand real flying doesn’t involve trying to aim a mouse pointer, your hand may be dodgy in these circumstances, but it’s still far more effective :wink:

I completely agree with your point about external windows though.

I guess the mouse pointer could also move relative to the cockpit/instrument panel instead of the computer screen. So it is not affected by head movement. A similar mode will probably be necessary for VR anyway - if I remember correctly, flyInside had this mode as well.

4 Likes

I’ve mapped the buttons on the base of my joystick (T16000M) to increase/decrease heading, altitude, vertical speed and speed, for this reason.

it works pretty well, since I’m normally only messing with those when not actively changing stuff on the throttle.

I was playing around with VOR to VOR navigation a bit yesterday though, and I need 2 more buttons to change the course as well :stuck_out_tongue: