[FIXED] World Update 3 has broken flight dynamics, exhibit A

Ground effect should be more pronounced in low wing aircraft.

Float when too fast will be worse in an aircraft with laminar flow wings like the Mooney (the reason it has spoilers)

A Mooney floating off the end of the runway if you are 5 knots too fast is probably realistic.

Caravans which are basically bricks with wings probably should not float much.

Caravans are often used for short dodgy grass strips in places like New Guinea and have pretty good STOL characteristics, they are definitely not "floaters’, unlike this sim atm. :grin:

It’s not as bad, but it is there.

I’ve just been flying the Seminole, and it’s affected too. I tend to find I need to approach at much shallower angles now.

I just did a flight with the Working Title CJ4 mod. This mod was 100% fine pre-patch. I did two flights yesterday and they were fine, however, I just did a flight and when landing I had to hold my stick ALL the way forward and if I let it go, even as low as 20kts, it was still trying to take back off.

This needs to be fixed immediately.


I just did a flight in the King Air (which already had somewhat questionable flight characteristics) and it was almost impossible to land. When I finally did get on the ground, it spun around and I ended up sideways well off the side of the runway. It’s almost unbelievable that this was allowed into a public update.

Caravan, Kingair, & TBM, make some unplayable problems now.
Can just speak for me… the 3 big one i dont fly.

But before the update i have no problems to land. Now i need the hole runway somtimes. Lost try was with Kingair, and i need 3400 feets of the hole runway for stillstanding (include Thrust Reversal and 20 kts Headwind) . Before with the Kingair almost 800-1000 feets. Somtimes shorter but never more.

Cessnas like 152, 172, also Baron and Bonanza are not affected by that Problem, still the same experience as before the update. Really crazy…

Cant believe that ASOBO that not see in the Tests. Bad Qualitiy Controll… one time more…

Other problem now is to hold the line after touch the ground. In my case the plane after landing tears to the left/right, no chqnce to hold straight.


The thing I’ve found interesting is that the taildraggers weren’t really different in my experience.

I had this with the A32nx before the update, but no other planes (tried TBM and taildraggers too).

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At every update it is such a bugfest since publix release.
And now they simply broke it. I could live for a bit with the taxiway lighta all over the place, with the enitre alps covered in white including roads, with the freezing glass at ground level, but This is a seriously braking regression.
I think a case study should be done in what it seems to be one of the worst release management processes I’ve ever seen, both as a user but also this is my impression as a professional software developer.
I just can’t believe that such scholastic and almost infantile, puerile mistakes are being repeated at every product iteration by a company releasing a product under the Microsoft umbrella.
This whole thing, from the initial release, to the download process, to the update management process from the marketplace, to the ever braking regressions at every single update release and the many other snafus qualifies this product as possibly the most bug ridden software product I’ve ever used…and no action point is ever taken. The same comedy is repeated at every.single.release.
The only thing that come close, to my memory, are windows vista and windows ME. And the pentium 75/100 with the division bug.
I really regret having bought this product but will use it professionally as a showcase and case study as the best example of terrible release management, QA and QC (not to mention the coding which, at this point, I believe has gone out of control. I understand that the pandemic has caused many troubles as it does for me, but this is a smell of something in the process that went completely wrong)
You’ve earned an achievement.


With the GA’s like 152 or 172 i can still landing smoothly, easy hold the line on ground also by Headwind or Sidewind/crosswind.
I was landing today in Out Skerris with crosswinds of 25-35, no Problem with 172 or 152, but with the Caravan no Change. Normaly i land on shorter runways with the caravane without Problems…

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You speak to me from the soul!!! . Unfortunately at the moment I see more problems than things that really work. Above all, with each patch a new wave of errors has appeared, when it should actually be the other way around. Somehow ASOBO seems to define / interpret the word “patch” differently. The only thing that is really well done are the 3D models of the planes, the Bing thing, if it worked smoothly, looks good too. But that’s about it, everything else is one big construction site. Also mysterious to me that many have no problems and others only have problems. With some the download doesn’t work, with others the Bing / Photogammetry doesn’t work, with others the sim doesn’t even start e.c.t. I think ASOBO took too big a bite and choked.

Honestly I think they released too early (Microsoft probably wanted/needed it released), and have had to rush timelines since then. That’s my guess on what happened.

Asobo is up to the task, I guarantee that.

Well, there is SOME real-world precedent, but only when emergencies force you to come in hot to keep flying at all, and then you have stop really soon after touchdown so need to get the brakes working ASAP. Still, doing this in MSFS as a normal thing right now, to work around the excessive float, kinda qualifies as an emergency.

Just be mindful of anther key point to this recent bungling of flight models: the extreme nose-down pitch when you retract flaps. So, you’ll want to flare a lot more than before while you’re doing this, to prevent 1-point landings and prop-strikes.

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Tonight was the first time that I went to click on the MSFS icon on my desktop and decided not to. I’ve been totally addicted to flying about and exploring the World recently, but this last update has really put me off - it’s a time commitment for most of us… so when things go wonky, then I think it’s time to sit it out for a bit and do something more worthwhile (I played Partisans 1941 instead and had a good time). I’m sad to feel this way, but it’s not worth getting wound up about I guess.

I can deal with most of the little bugs but flying the previous couple of days in the Mooney and Caravan the flying seemed a bit ‘arcadey’ to me somehow. (I’m not a pilot - been flying in sims forever but I wouldn’t see myself as an expert at all) Perhaps I’ll go back to the Bonanza next time and see how that goes - sounds like it might have escaped the strangeness?

[sigh] :expressionless:

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Well, everybody needs a change of routine now and again and, if you think now’s your time, then good for you.

However, I’m not at that point in my life and don’t find the recent mess particularly troubling. Sure, it’s broken, but it’s pretty easy to work around. To me, it’s just adaptation but I come from a combat sim background so am quite used to having parts of my plane shot off, malfunctioning, and/or burning. That’s just par for the course when you let folks shoot at you. The point is, FLY THE AIRPLANE, which means doing whatever it takes in light of present circumstances.

So, I just look at this as a challenge. Fly the airplane. It can still be done and I quickly figured out how. I don’t worry about whether it’s right or wrong. I just pretend I’m working around some malfunction or battle damage and go with it. Thus, I see no reason to get all pouty about it. MS/Asobo is now quite aware of the problem and are doubtless working on it as we speak. In the meantime, you can still fly just fine.


True, also Combat sims tend to prioritise “game balance” and “player expectations” over realism. The balance is sometimes achieved by making rare prototypes available to the other side or providing non historical high octane fuel etc. The “player expectations” thing is tricky because what do you do when people expect the P51 or Spitfire IX to simultaneously out turn an A6m, outgun a fw190a8 with 30mm gun pods, have a similiar top speed to a 262 and climb better than a Bearcat because they “saw it in a Movie” .

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Their devops model is Agile on Steroids. Worst thing to happen to development from a consumers standpoint in my eyes.

Agile is absolutely 100% the dumbest way to build anything if a level of quality above a bin fire is a goal. If you’re trying to build just to deliver something, anything, in the shortest time possible, at the lowest possible cost, to meet contract and/or cost requirements—it’s perfect!

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Doesn’t every aircraft have laminar flow wings? That is the intend at least…

Nope, very few aircraft are laminar flow. My limited understanding is it is hard to achieve without compromising strength (the wing needs to be thin) and is expensive to manufacture (among other things flush rivets). Also laminar flow wings need to be kept relatively clean and bug free, are more prone to instability and only work well at particular angles of attack. They are suited to aircraft needing efficient high speed cruise and not suited to something like a bush plane.

Airbus have been experimenting with laminar Flow for the next generation of airliners:

Flew the Mooney back and forth on a 100 nm trip to check it out. AP works as it should, takeoff is accelerated, as is initial climb out. Directional stability on the takeoff roll and on the rollout after landing is very good to excellent. Both landings were flown “by the book” and both were done by hand, after initial capture of the localizer. ILS capture was without issue; both landings were very smooth and quite satisfactory.

The conclusion is, the Carenado Mooney flies without adverse effects other than the exaggerated acceleration and climb performance.

I plan on checking out the TBM on a cross-country flight tomorrow. Will submit a PIREP.


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