[BUG LOGGED] Flight model - issue during take off and acceleration, physics on the ground

Hello,
till now this issue isnt solved :face_with_raised_eyebrow:.

When you start (take off) or landing with even small crosswind the plane (especially taildraggers :point_up:) started to ride from right to left. For me looks like the the rudder starts to suddenly with full force (after when the plane reaches 40 kts). Take off here is the worse take off on sim market if we compare it to others simulators like Prepar3D, FSX, DCS, IL-2 ect. It is impossible to stay perfectly straight line on the airstrip (which in real life is not a big problem with applying the rudder gradually). This is FM bug in the sim (with weather/wind on the ground or something else).

Here you can see how many take off look (with data monitoring what is very interesting): Microsoft Flight Simulator - Typical gusty takeoff - YouTube

I have real experience with flying and sorry, it does not look like this and spoils the immersion completely in MSFS. The rudder operates gradually and not suddenly like you did it, causing almost maximum deflection during take-off or landing after the wheels touch the ground like its in MSFS suddenly. What is important too tailwheel lock (if its present and working well) doesnt help at all, which is also a mistake.

Here you can find more topic about this serious issue:

Pls. fix it finally :+1: :+1: :+1:. You are working on Air Race Reno DLC and it will be disaster with current physics with high powered engines of race taildraggers.

Since it still hasn’t been fixed for us, owners I opened Zendesk ticket for this issue:

Request #123237

Pls give to use improvments of this. Check how it looks for example in P3D or FSX!

Edit:
If you are the real pilot (or have any real experience) you know that rudder during take-off, it works gradually and not suddenly like its in MSFS (40kts, is a barrier), it also causes the plane to tilt in the wind direction, not to turn it. This means that in the wind you can fly completely sideways but still keep a straight line and be exactly in the center of the line. For example, it is present in P3D or DCS, here (in MSFS) its a joke, sorry. You have an example in the video and Piper Archer which is a much heavier plane. Its a serious issue of physic in MSFS on the ground with acceleration and rudder action. This is very easy to see when approaching too with the rudder deflected. AFTER touching the wheels, suddenly the plane drifts completely to the left or right side too hard. This shows that if the wheels are in use, a different physics comes into play, and there is no point in transforming it.

I am currently testing a heavier taildragger model (I am also a beta tester for flight physics and systems for few companies with over 20 years of experience in simulators) and I can see still unrelated behavior that cannot be eliminated in the module as ground physics in MSFS needs to be improved overall.

Hi Yoyo,

I can only agree with this topic and it is distressing to see that the developers are struggling to add content without solving the basic problems.

It’s the technique of the pile of sand that is always being pushed but it only grows. If these developers are going to fix these problems at the end of 10 years of development, I don’t think there will be many users left to take advantage of it.

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btw. I see that the topic recived now pre text [BUG LOGGED], what is mean? Confirmed and Asobo is working on it? :slight_smile:

It’s also impossible to ground loop most of the taildraggers. The ground physics need a serious review.

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I hope they will do something with this before Ju-52 will be realesed, so before 28th of September. :slight_smile:

I would like to vote but my votes are limited

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:sweat_smile: Thx :slight_smile: !

Btw. any improvments before Ju-52 will be released?

No. That’s not going to happen.

Thx for answer. My fingers are crossed for the fix, sooner or later ;>.

I vote for this correction too

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It’s quite refreshing that this is the ONLY post on this topic which people haven’t jumped all over blaming crosswinds. I’ve been having the exact same issue and also logged with zendesk so hopefully something gets sorted soon!

Mine looks like this… ignore the dodgy takeoff! You can see at about 30kts the rudder physically moves without any input and I have to fight it down the runway.

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Right… I seem to have started to hone in on something, at least on my sim anyway. If someone else having the same problem can do the same and reproduce the results I’m sure that would help too.

Test flight set up as follows.

Make sure all pilot assists are turned off (Hard preset)
Empty community folder.
Set up a flight in the world map using the standard A320 with default livery.
Depart EGLL Heathrow
Arrive EGGP Liverpool
Set to IFR high altitude airways
Depart runway 27R
Departures MAY3F 27R
Arrivals TIP01C ALL
Approach ILS 09
(I had my time set to 18:35UTC)

Set weather to clear skies and delete wind layer.

In this case I will see the rudder move a tiny bit once 30kts is reached but it generally heads down the runway correctly with minimal dramas.

NOW if I set up a similar flight but departing from EHAM Schipol, Amsterdam…

Make sure all pilot assists are turned off (Hard preset)
Set up a flight in the world map using the standard A320 with default livery.
Depart EHAM Schipol, Amsterdam
Arrive EGGP Liverpool
Set to IFR high altitude airways
Depart runway 18C
Departures TORG2X 18C
Arrivals TIP01C ALL
Approach ILS 09
(I had my time set to 18:35UTC)
Set clear skies and delete wind layer

In this scenario, once 30kts is reached, the rudder suddenly pulls to one side and stays there causing the aircraft to head off somewhere off into the ulu.

If I repeat this setup and replace departures TOR2X 18C with direct I get the same result.
If I repeat this setup and replace with runway 36C and direct departure I get the same result.
Repeated with 18L and direct departure - same result.
Repeated with 36R and direct departure - same result.
Repeated with 18R and direct departure - same result.
Repeated with 36L and direct departure - same result.
Repeated with 22 and direct departure - same result - Right
Repeated with 04 and direct departure - same result - Left
Repeated with 24 and direct departure - same result - Right - not as violently
Repeated with 06 and direct departure - same result - Left - not as violently

If I repeat this setup and replace with runway 27 the rudder only moves slightly, just enough to not have to adjust much and keep it heading down the runway without any dramas.

I initially thought that even though I was deleting the wind layer that this was the culprit, as it seems runways going west to east or east to west were less affected (Heathrow’s both being fine and most of Amsterdam being horrendous (north-south orientation) apart from 27 which spans east - west. However no matter what I did with the wind strength or direction in the setup screen I was getting the same results. I also tested EGBB Birmingham and got the same veering off runway (north-south, up-down orientation, whatever you want to call it).

I did try changing the flight path from heading west to heading east to see if the plane was steering towards its destination but whether I set it to go from Amsterdam to Hamburg instead of Liverpool it would still veer west on the runway.

I can confirm that it happens with or without any flight plan set.

I’ll test some more things I can think of when I can be bothered, spent too much time on it today.

In conclusion - controllers not affecting runway problem, deleting wind or changing its strength or direction not affecting problem, aircraft seems to veer to the west ONLY when on the ground and ONLY when above 30kts, when airborne it’ll fly fine.

Turning on takeoff auto rudder seems to solve for the takeoff but the issue is still there when landing.

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Just tried it. Didn’t happen to me. Seems like you may be getting a spurious non-centered rudder/steering signal from the start of takeoff. I get that sometimes if I don’t kick the rudder pedals back-and-forth a couple of times before starting the roll. You might try first checking your controls to ensure the rudder is centered?

No idea. Rudder is centered and I get the same results whether I kick the rudder a few times or not.
At the moment I’ve got it nailed down consistantly repeatable on North-South runways. Even if I cold start at a gate with no destination and taxi to takeoff it pulls west.

Bump. Please, please, please focus the next release on the flight model and physics.

Hello Asobo and MS Team, any news about this issue with taildraggers? Its still present :face_with_thermometer:

Agree and +1 with the taildraggers. The Carenado Beech 18 could really be a fun plane to fly, but takeoff and landing are virtually impossible to get correct as it is currently.

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Improved as of Sim Update 10.