Flight Simulator 2020 on Xbox One?

The game is streamed to your device of choice from XCloud which is powered by Xbox Series X consoles: https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/28/22554267/microsoft-xcloud-game-streaming-xbox-pass-ios-iphone-ipad-pc
Also coming to Smart TV’s in the near future: https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/10/22527420/microsoft-xbox-tv-app-streaming-stick-xcloud

Cloud servers need CPU’s and GPU’s too. :wink:

So for someones who just flies around in a Cessna in 3rd person view it’s great. But it’s even more limited than an actual Xbox at home. You probably can’t use a lot of peripherals. You can’t install your own software on it.

So it will be fine for gamers who will play this for a couple of weeks. But i can’t imagine someone playing this for a couple of years and still fly a cessna with a controller, most people will eventually want to go a bit deeper with customization. And that is only possible on your own hardware.

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From Microsoft’s perspective, that’s the whole point - one day, they’ll buy an Xbox of their own!

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Yes, but it will all depend on what customization/mods/free addons/peripherals they will support both on the cloud platform and the Xbox itself. In any case this is good news for the hobby!

Agree, this is stuff dreams are made off, not reality. But future-wise… it could be done… Imagine MSFS on your phone. Life. You get your 60FpS from the cloud, apparently… suppose they devised some new video format to give you the impression you actually control a plane ? They’d need a lot of servers to support that and transfer all the data to near zero memory devices.

In short… for NOW… I suspect this is all marketing talk, I don’t think this guy knows what a Cloud is, except for the mist he is causing himself.

Are you trolling ?

you can already play many games on xcloud.

It’s just the control inputs sent to the datacenter with the xbox racks and back you get the video. It doesn’t matter if it’s Forza Horizon, Doom or MSFS.

Like when you work in an office in large companies nowadays, you get streamed the video picture from the cloud server datacenter that runs your work PC on a server. There is nothing spectacular about that. You just need a good internet connection. I work in germany my PC is situated in Czech Republic. I just need a device that runs the receiving program for the video and can send input of mouse and keyboard to the server centre.

That’s established technology.

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No. Are you ? :yum:

Easy to assume, difficult to make it reality. You’re talking 5G at least… there is a big difference with these games: MSFS has a changing scenery too big to store on any device… it has weather and time settings… Do you have any idea what happens if you’d pump MSFS internet load up to reach 60FpS on its own ?? or how do you expect clouds to look, you’d need to download clouds, instead of having your GPU generate them … it may be easy to play a single person shooter in an OpenGL browser, with a fixed scenery… you can use a Samsung phone with (poor man’s) VR for that. MSFS is a different ball game…

It’s just a videostream being sent, you can watch Youtube on 4K 60FPS well. Xcloud works with only 1080p 60FPS, so far less data sent in the videostream.
Try it if you are a Gamepass Ultimate subscriber, it’s available for many games.

Whether the game is rendered oin a local device or an remote device technically makes no difference.

In one case you sent the control inputs to your local PC or Xbox and that sends the picture to your Monitor.

In the other case you sent your control inputs to a remote PC/Xbox via internet and that streams the video to your Monitor via internet.

There is a small delay between that but for MSFS it doesn’t matter much, it’s not a super fast reaction game.
You need very fast video encoding for this stream, but it’s already working well.

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Thx for the tip, but I know that and I know browser games can look very nice. But this method does not exist for MSFS yet… and I try to explain to you why that is. For starters, this 60FpS is fixed rate video… I don’t know of any video stream format game, showing a camera that can go all directions. You go backward or forward, into paths that are available, or preprogrammed. You are “on rails”, so to say. Stream formats are passive now, that is why it does not work for a simulator with 60 freedoms built in. We can go anywhere we like with our aircraft, in 3 dimensions.

Supporting MSFS online would require very fast recalculation of new screens. Bing data is dynamic. Blackshark data is dynamic. When you’d use video for this, whatever format, the server would have to continuously generate the screen display for thousands of MSFS users simultaneously. That is not going to happen. We have plenty of calculation power in house, as users. I think the only way to go is flying in the browser… based on 3D tools available to the browser… which will require a good CPU+GPU to have decent frame rate. In case of MSFS, something stronger than XBox-One, or tablets… or Samsung phones… When MSFS stays a success… it could accellerate the development of 3d hardware for laptops, tablets and phones.

My personal main concern is how does MSFS’s ability to stream to Xbox One benefit a flight simmers desire for the currently very absent aviation realism in MSFS. The way I see it, it does not.

I understand that its the main Microsoft Company working on this, but the MSFS team is going to have to do some work to make this possible, right? At the minimum MSFS developers will have to designate some sort of error reporting/troubleshooting specific to Xbox One. If an Xbox One user only can access the net from the console how will they get to zendesk or this forum? Resources for customer support alone could be enormous. But if the prediction is that there will not be a slew of Xbox One users then why do it? If its such a good idea and its predicted that there will be a slew of new users, then flight simmers waiting for realism, will have to wait while MSFS staff is helping Xbox One users.

I have an Xbox One and have nothing against gaming consoles or games. I do have something against the stagnation of realism of flight sims over the last 20+years. I think the perception that this Xbox-Flight Sim merger is all good, is only going to serve to stagnate realism further… Xbox X|S has already done so, I wonder how Xbox One will serve to stagnate realism in MSFS even more.

Imagine a very meticulously planned IFR flight, in a highly detailed aircraft add-on, going to and from highly detailed add-on airports, Live wx, Live traffic, etc., on an Xbox One - yea right. Try it on a current $20,000 gaming rig and the performance is still going to suffer.

The wrong direction for flight simulation in my view. I welcome all new users to flight sim, but why must it always result in me not getting the realism that should have been long ago?

No simmer left behind…no, but simmers who just want cirrus clouds or Live weather that even works properly, essentially were left in the sewer 20 years ago, and the stagnation tradition continues.

Sorry for interrupting the discussion. But I am not sure what you mean?

Are you saying that MSFS could not be streamed like, for instance, Google Stadia/xCloud works? Because that seems a bit of a stretch. The network bandwidth is certainly available in a data center. So is the computing power. The only issue is input lag with these services.

I am not sure where the problem would be. The sim just runs remotely in the data center with the same requisites as at home and the video output is then streamed to your device. No additional performance cost.

What am I missing?

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Internet bandwidth I suppose… :cat: a scenery the size of a planet… MSFS is in all aspects a big product, with a very large user base. Much more transfer would be needed than your average racer game. In a racer game, your camera has a very narrow view. So a lot can be cached. In MSFS I can choose to bank the plane 11.2 degrees, turn 171 degrees left and 13 degrees down and proceed in that direction. New screens would need to be generated and transferred. There is no time for compression: a bitmap the size of a 4K screen will be about 27MB per 4K screen. 60 frames per second of new scenery you’d need 1.5GBps continually and uninterrupted. The internet does not provide that speed. A cache does. GPU does… and XCloud makes use of both. Else it cannot be done.

I think there is some kind of misunderstanding here.

If the game runs on your home PC, it runs just fine in xCloud. Yes, MSFS needs to stream in the terrain and the weather. But it does so, no matter where you are.

What is the difference between streaming to someones home and some data center?

What you claim to be impossible is done on a daily basis already. Games like, for instance, Cyberpunk 2077 and Doom Eternal (just to pick two very high-end games) are being streamed in real time with 6DoF with no issues. The amount of bandwith needed is totally depending on how much compression you are using. A 3 hour Netflix movie at UHD runs just fine with normal broadband.

The same happens with these streaming platforms.

Now, input lag is a problem. Because the need to compress the original source video and of course because of the distance. So Stadia has input lag at around ~200 ms. Which is noticable. But that is something a slow civilan flight simulator could handle, much better than a racing game or a shooter.

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Show me the release then, I’ll try it immediately. If all would be that easy, let’s fly, it’s already there.

Cyberpunk and Doom run, so MSFS should run… that logic does not hold ! It is camera freedom and size of scenery that’s the issue for any XCloud or video streaming solution for MSFS. It can’t be done for 1000s of people, without controls lagging, stutters… Ok put it on a telephone screen, maybe the small 720x400 would help. But personally, I prefer a thicker client. A good PC, or XBox-X. Generic textures on disk, meshes of POI’s readily installed. I can fly that now. The server only gives me elevation, photogrammetry, life weather and fellow pilots, all optional. Download for a flight is megabytes, not gigabytes. The screen… let my CPU+GPU take care off that please, it also allows me to decide my settings.

It can’t be done for 1000s of people, without lag, stutters, etcetera.

But it’s already being done right now all over the world for every MSFS game client out there. :slightly_smiling_face:

It does not matter much if those clients all run in the same data center with hundreds of Gigabits of bandwidth or at home using a PC. The strain on the MSFS game servers is the same. All that xCloud (or Stadia) does, is run the game remotely and stream it to you.

Case in point, players all over the world stream MSFS on YouTube and Twitch in real-time without any issues, getting the terrain streamed in and streaming the video out for everybody to see at the same time. xCloud and Stadia just add an interface for your controller inputs.

Many smartphones already have a 4K screen or at least WQHD, it’s just smaller than a desktop monitor. These streaming services are device-agnostic by design, so you can play on whatever suits you best without losing quality.

Of course, you lose certain freedoms, like modding a game. But there are also services out there that let you rent a remote gaming PC and you can just use it like you would your PC at home.

We will have to see if MSFS is being included into xCloud. It’s certainly not impossible.

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Ok where can I download a MSFS game client, showing me my aircraft life, on a Samsung phone ? Any idea ? Suppose autopilot could work… but in that case, images can be prepared far in advance, because your flight path is known in advance. With life controls it is much more complicated.

You don’t seem to understand the issue. This is not comparable in any way to Youtube. We talk interactive video allowing us to change views arbitrarily… complete freedom, no fixed paths. Control the aircraft, with variable camera settings, variable weather, variable time… and corrections during takeoff and landing that CANNOT allow a 200ms lag… you’ll crash, simple case. I don’t understand why you can’t grab the issue. It would have arrived long ago when it would really be possible.

lol :yum: yeah sure host MSFS at home for all your friends to fly. Put 18-40 Pc’s with 3080RTX in an industrial rack and pay your 2000,- per month electricity bill. Success with your project. Come back in… 10-12 years ? mine some crypto’s on the sideline when everybody sleeps…

Honestly, I don’t understand either why it is so hard for you to believe that streaming MSFS is possible. Yes, 200 ms of lag takes getting used to, but people play games via streaming that require much faster reaction times than a civilian flight simulator without too many problems.

200 ms is literally just the blink of an eye.

But in the end, all I wanted to know was, if I understood you correctly, which I did. No need to derail this further.

Jorg was asked the question about the xbox one version in the Q&A stream on Twitch last week. It’s around the 39 minute mark.

No. It is Xbox series X/S only.