G36 Improvement Project

Cheers for that, much appreciated!

It would be really nice if you could make a pull request for this :slight_smile:!

I’m embarrassed to say that I don’t know how to do that. I’ve only downloaded files from Github. Let me create an account, seek the advice of YouTube, and see what I can do. LOL.
:+1:t2:

I would say please let’s keep visual stuff like this separate. It’s pretty subjective whether the prop visuals need to be changed, I’d really like to not have to go and reset this every time I want to update the performance of the plane.

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This is my favourite thread on this site. Keep up the excellent work everyone!

I too found that the stock prop effect was too much - something about the combo of my FPS and the prop RPM would give me a headache after a while. It was enough that I just started flying the DA62. Eventually I found another thread where someone else had the same problem and they fixed it the same way as here.

All that being said, I agree that maybe these sorts of visual tweaks should be left up to the user.

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Fair enough. I’ll upload it to: https://flightsim.to for anyone that wants it.

Cheers.

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@jonasbeaver I’d like to get confirmation on something you mentioned a while back: you said a good power setting for low cruise when getting vectors from ATC would be 20" and 2300RPM, which would yield about 124KIAS with a clean airplane. I’m trying to match this with the configs, but it’s proving difficult (came to this because I’m working on approach speeds and initially thought the flaps need more drag). My questions are 1)what’s a good altitude to be testing that? and 2)are you sure about the 20" thing? I’m right around 124KIAS at 18", but it’ll take major changes to drag to do it at 20" and I worry it’ll destroy cruise speeds. If it’s definitely 20 I’ll keep cracking away at it, but just want to be sure.

This vectoring power setting is for down low, I use it when in a terminal area and you might get vectored around for 20 minutes. 20" 2300 in that area at 2000ft should be around there. If you are in non standard ISA air or fairly light weight you could see higher numbers. Down low, I would also be using the air conditioner, which would shave somewhere between 3 and 5 knots.

Between different weights, weight locations, weather conditions, time since last maintenance, even how ā– ā– ā– ā– ā–  <-- I wrote d i r t y… she is, speed with the same power setting / same altitude can vary 5kts pretty easily from one flight to the next. Its part of the fun!

What you guys have done feels like a right out of the showroom factory model, powerful and new, which is in my opinion probably the best way to mimic it.

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For what it’s worth, 20ā€ is usually what I use while being vectored as well. But almost always seems to be right at 150 kts indicated in the G36 I fly. (Level flight, gear / flaps up, 2500 rpm). Works out good because it is just below the max gear speed.

Yes that makes sense, fair enough.

It’s funny that 50ĀŗF ROP is about the worst possible setting one can choose. As per Lycoming’s EGT/CHT chart, best power would be ~150ĀŗF ROP, and best economy would be ~20ĀŗF LOP. I would really like to know who on Earth came up with the 50ĀŗF ROP figure :yum:

The G36 POH has cruise power charts for 20ĀŗC ROP and 20ĀŗC LOP. So I guess the answer to your questions is…Beechcraft.

Not only… C172’s POH also mentions 50ĀŗF ROP for best power… but it misses the mark a little bit :yum:

OK, thank you! I’m not going to stress too much about getting all the way down to 125 then. It seemed like a huge drop from the 153KIAS the book calls for at 23" and 2300RPM. Maybe we can implement a little spoiler drag that happens when you activate the A/C switch? I certainly don’t see how we could properly model it sapping engine power. A question for @FrettFS I suppose.

I wonder if there’s a difference in carbon buildup between 50ROP and 150ROP. I can’t say that I’ve come across anybody running that rich in my reading/viewing, besides maybe D I C K Rochfort in the Malibu Mirage (I haven’t seen him mention where his T I T peaks, but he flows a good bit more gas than Piper says you should). Granted Piper says you should run at peak which seems crazy.

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I think the cowl flaps were already tied to drag in a variable and the a/c switch could probably take over the way the cowl flaps get their drag now I think, but that’s up to the experts.

With the amount of people I’ve seen who just keep mixture full rich all the time, I’d say even 150ĀŗF ROP is already a huge improvement :yum:

I want to fly that G36!
clean, 20"/2300, 2000ft, Texas summer, a/c on I’m ~125kts with two pilots and mostly full tanks. Either you have a magic 200rpm, a super clean/light airplane, or you are up way higher. This is with a stock 2008 G36 (not turbo normalized), good engine, gami injectors, running ROP - not full rich, but not measured precisely like I would for cruise.

When one climbs up to 11k and are only making 19" or so at full throttle, sure you are getting 165kts. Thin air will give you just such a difference. 20/2500 for 150kts sounds like something the one I fly could do at 7000ft maybe.

Also, down low, I think you’ll like 2300 better unless you are planning a climb. 2300 is a little quieter, and less fuel burn. If I make the change from 2500 to 2300, I’ll often do it at the top of decent, otherwise its usually after 2 or 3 minutes level at 20"2500 that I’ll remember its more annoying and pull the prop back. Especially if its into a class B or somewhere you know you’ll be at 2000ft for 15 minutes, its just a chauffeur-y thing to do for those on board.

edit, to bring back the old post and see what the hell everyone was referencing:

Weight used: pilot 200 copilot 150 middle right 210 back left 180 fuel 67%.
weather dzb-sat 29c at the surface 22c at 5000ft

In climb I’ll have WOT - wide open throttle (29" and decreasing with altitude). After takeoff I climb at 100kts, do flap retraction, reduce rpm to 2600 then set up the flight director to nav mode and climb with FLC, then turn on the autopilot. I’ll set airspeed to 120kts (up to 140kts depending on how much airflow I need to keep the CHTs below 200c in climb) to at least above 6000’ cruise.

In the sim I am showing about 300fpm on average climb performance difference over my experience.

Reaching a low cruise for testing I set up a few situations
20" 2300rpm gives about the top of the white arc (124kts) clean, that is close. (its a good power setting for being vectored around at low altitude).

flaps approach, gear down, 15" and prop full forward in a 500fpm descend should get around 100kts, I’m getting 102kts.

flaps full, gear down, 20" and prop full forward in 500fpm descent should get around 90kts, I’m getting 92kts…

on to an ils approach on autopilot.
flaps app, gear down, 20" 2500rpm was about 125kts, in real life this would be closer to 117kts
flaps app, gear down, 15" 2500rpm was about 110kts, in real life this would be just shy of 100kts.

I usually fly 18" 2500rpm approach flaps and gear down for about 105-110kts.

The power feels pretty close, it might be the lift that feels just a smidge too much much or not enough drag clean.

Those were all observations from an early edit of the flight model, referencing speeds produced in the simulator versus what I’ve experienced in real life.

Reaching a low cruise for testing I set up a few situations
20" 2300rpm gives about the top of the white arc (124kts) clean, that is close. (its a good power setting for being vectored around at low altitude).

So with the model edit at the time, in the specified situation, that 124kts was what the airplane was producing in the simulator as observed, not what the real airplane did. In the actual aircraft, I’m not in the mid 150s and I’d have to go double check now to see the actual number in the plane but somewhere around around 130kts with the AC on I would believe. On the otherhand, the approach numbers were that precise (117kts) because about a week earlier I got to fly with a guy with a new to him G36 and we set out to figure out power settings and numbers for his airplane so I still had the hand written matrix. Next time I get up in the plane I will get a precise 2000ft 20"/2300 and 2500rpm clean speed. If its not too hot I’ll try it with the AC off too :slight_smile:

Yes I was thinking about doing this for the A/C. I’m still in the process of understanding the entire XML coding system and all the templates that Asobo made (and the custom ones you can make). With close to zero documentation, especially on the templates and how they work, it takes me a long time to get a good understanding of it all. Also, being a Python programmer I like to be able to read my code, so the Reverse Polish notation comes straight out of hell if you ask me :joy: (where a + b is written like a b +). Coding the Bus tie logic was a small breakthrough yesterday, but now I’m stuck again at connecting the A/C switch to code. It’s fun and rewarding though to figure it all out…

In the latest dev-version I have laid the foundation for custom ModelBehaviorDefs. This will also make it easier if Asobo updates the base files (e.g. Bonanza_G36_interior.xml). All the custom code is now separated and only called upon in a few lines, which should make merging with Asobo changes a breeze.

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Do you need info like A/C power draw, and the fun logic it uses if you leave it on during takeoff yet?
:slight_smile: