Glider, sailplane, soaring, please!

Tomorrow next update with improved thermals and aerotow.
If some idiot attached to you, you will not have any cancel button, but cable detached automatically when angle to the plane more than 90 degrees. Hope MS will not ban me forever for that.
Multiple gliders can be attached to same tow plane.

Thanks B21 I see you have been here a while and have been quite busy. I’m relatively new to this platform, and I see you have been very active once again crusading for Proper and correct sailplane function within a given sim.
For anyone not familiar with This man, he goes by B21 in sim circles and has over the years made a major contribution to soring simulation in FSX, X Plane, and now MSFS, he has seen fit to design construct and implement correct and functioning gauges and flight computers for various sims and his work is exemplified in most of Wolfgang Pipers FSX sailplanes. In X plane he, with help from some other enthusiasts, convinced Laminar to rush a quick update to their thermal model to make it usable for soaring in X Plane. Asobo should be (if they are not already) consulting this man to ensure that the sailplanes and soaring environment in MSFS is as good as it can be. He has a lot of expertise as well in the modifying of flight models to conform to actual Sailplane performance polars.
I think Asobo has done a remarkable job in creating a potentially superior “world” for soaring, and soaring lends itself perfectly to the what seems to be the sight seeing goals of MSFS. Previously, and initially was very critical of MSFS, It does, however, hold the single greatest potential for superior flight simulation, if Asobo will agree to avail itself of the expertise, waiting in the wings and eager to help expanding the sim to it’s greatest potential. I would include Alex Marko on this list as well as an enthusiastic and talented individual.
I have been quietly converting some sailplanes on my own as a diversion until we reach the time that MSFS can implement some sailplanes with realistic performance into the sim.
Should we expect everything all at once? I think no, but lets hope Asobo will take the necessary first steps to create an accurate modeling of soaring in MSFS, and allow for future upgrades to the system.

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Hello MSGamerTag01. Are you B21? Please tell.
Do you want to send your open letter to Zendesk to give it hopefully more Asobo attention.
I don’t know what I should think about Zendesk. Normally they reach state “solved” in Zendesk in days. But the Zendesk “solved” bugs are not repaired in FS2020 in months - see e.g. the Xbox controller One rudder bug.
At the topic of negative flaps and improve glide ratio: If you postulate that -9° flaps gives your “baseline” glide ratio, you can give a worse glide ratio to say 0° flaps. That is you shift the range to an all positive range and the “flaps can only add drag, but not lift” problem is gone.
At the topic of FS2020 weather system gusts: At wind speed 0 knots and blank input field there are still gusts. The old trick to have wind without gusts does no longer work. Therefore it is necessary to have a gust slider that goes down to 0% gusts.

Well, Asobo/Microsoft delivered beta quality software at full price in August 2020. In the bumpy ride since then they performed the “two steps forward, one step backward” software maintenance dance.

I have FSX:Steam, Aerofly FS2, Acro FS and X-plane 11.5 on my computer. But I think the stall, spin and snap roll of my aerobatics flight model mods in FS2020 feels best. The computational fluid dynamics of FS2020 is not a marketing lie, it is real.
As I look deeper into aircraft design and deeper into FS2020 I see what is lacking in FS2020 compared to the behavior of a real airplane. See for example the following polar chart, measured by SimPolar:

DG808S_polar induced=1.5 parasite=0.4 354kg 600kg

The black lines are DG808C data sheet. The green bars are 30kg/m^2, the purple are 50.8kg/m^2 wing load SimPolar measurement (Alex Marko’s SimPolar 0.3 with my patch) of my DG808S model. You see that FS2020 lowers the glide ratio for high airspeed, but not for low airspeed (stall). This explains the “airplane does not stall, but hovers at low airspeed” complains.
There is an ugly feature in MS-Windows: The decimal point in german MS-Windows is comma not period. And SimPolar ignors the wrong decimal point symbol and read instead of 3.4 the number 34. Therefore the scale was totally wrong.

Aircraft design by Prof. Scholz: Flugzeugentwurf, HAW Hamburg

Just checked profile. it turned out awkward))) Hello, Ian :wave:

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Thankyou Alex, for all your effort, fantastic, I will be trying it out Today.

Hi folks! Yes I’m B21, thanks for asking - that ‘tag’ unsurprisingly wasn’t available on XBox Live in 2020. It’s the UK competition number of the ASW24 I flew for 15 years and on the rare occasion I did well the finish line would call BRAVO…2-1 which still makes me smile.

Top tip: Do NOT change your XBox Live gamer tag (I tried). MSFS gets royally broken and you spend days with Zendesk trying to fix it. The “one change for free” policy turns into something of a liability.

I’m optimistic for soaring in MSFS. Our current efforts with the D808S are definitely usable - much better than the original DG808S in FSX on which it’s based . MSFS has ridge lift plus the prospect of thermals under volumetric Cu’s, and already has designed-in multiplayer. Most soaring is quite close to the landscape and the cockpit is designed for looking out of, so the MSFS scenery really pays off. I expect the mission system will (like FSX) be well suited to packaging soaring/competition tasks. So it seems the support for gliders should be at least as good as FSX and the scenery/clouds/multiplayer will be better, so all good.

If we can put a working glider into MSFS today we stand a much better chance of Asobo raising the bar in 18 months. Otherwise it is possible they will deliver a power pilot’s guess of what a glider should be. It may turn out to be a plus that Asobo did not deliver gliding from the start.

There has been some colossal talent emerge for gliding development in MSFS over the past few months, I won’t embarrass them with names, but it’s a pleasure to be involved.

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Hi Ian, I guessed it was you from the language you used, remember the ASG 29 in X Plane?, I’m Jahn Dee. In any event, I was late to the party here for a few reasons, but happy to see so much involvement already, and I hear you are busy behind the scenes. I have been muddling with scenery and figuring out the SDK so I can hopefully import or reconstruct some of my Glider airfields from FSX in the future.

Ha, we’re getting the band back together!

Another big step forward in the soaring community! Thanks to Ian “B21” Lewis, we get a full pack of precisely working gauges in our DG808S add-on. Even if the 3D model is still in legacy format, flight model and instruments converted into modern form and fully working now.

By NewkTV’s advice, we were able to make it work in VR mode (even if in limited form), and also made installer work without Flight Simulator X assets, so everyone will be able to have it now!

Take it, discover the world in solo flight, or enjoy the freedom with your friends. And don’t forget to get Kinetic Assistant, a must-have util for the glider pilot.

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Hello everybody! I was surprised, too, that a forum message is a forum post. Therefore we can continue in this thread. At the moment we have good old FSX DG808S as our “fruit fly” to experiment with. I made a conversion and Alex made another conversion. I think it makes sense to combine both conversions.
But before the details work I suggest to spend some time with the “decision funnel”. That is first make coarse decisions about what we want to build and what we what not, then more and more fine decisions.
Here is my decision funnel question 1: SHALL the sailplane have engine or not?
Background: I estimate that 90% of sailplane have no engine for self starter or for “Heimkehrhilfe” - a little engine that keeps the sailplane in the air. On the other hand: A sailplane without engine crashes FS2020 if you start the flight on the airport (runway). At the moment you can only start in the air.
My suggestion: Sailplane without engine that delivers thrust, but with enough engine to avoid FS2020 crash.

get water ballast working (i.e. with correct polar) (water dump effect possible?)

I use a very simple solution in my DG808S. I have a “water ballast” passenger. I can give the passenger weight and I can change the weight in mid-flight. This is no rocket science, but it allows me to measure different polars. The location of the “water ballast” passenger does not change the center of gravity between tank full and empty.

My DG808S is on MSFS 2020 sailplane

Wow, this sounds cool. So, do I need anything else but a sailplane and Kinetic Assist to begin to soar?

That’s right. Nice glider club airfield scene will be useful as well.

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that’s nice and simple approach. we though about ballast, my idea was to add fuel tanks inside of the wings so engine will process inertion properly, and apply dump as a gauge script. but there is no way to add water dump animation, and it will make further FM adjustments even more complicated, so decided to not implement it right now.

first a little mechanics, I don’t particularly like how this “forum” is set up with regards to replies, quotes, and DMs.

  1. if you want to reply specifically to the sender, reply within his post it will be contained there as a drop down list and also at the bottom of the main thread apparently.
  2. replying at the bottom of the thread is a unique post not directed at any specific author.
  3. A DM (private message) needs to be generated by clicking on the authors Avatar then clicking on the blue message button. It does not go to the thread.
  4. Quote message and block Quote tags are contained in the reply icon tool bar.

seems a unique Microsoft solution to forum mechanics. :slight_smile:

All you need to soar is a sailplane ported over by you or someone else. try the excellent DG 808 presented by Alex and others at Alex’s web site Touching Cloud. Slope lift is native in MSFS 2020, you just need to find a suitable big hill or mountain ridge, go to weather and select the wind to blow directly perpendicular to the hill at a about 15-25 knots depending on the kind of hill, just experiment.
Alex’s little program can supply a winch launch, thermals with some effort, and Aerotow, which I have yet to get working, it is a little complicated to hook up.
You can also down load by Peter Lurkens Winch X which is a stand alone program which runs nicely with MSFS 2020. just one click to initiate the launch neither winch program shows any line or cable at this point, Alex is working on that.
Get soaring!

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On the other hand: A sailplane without engine crashes FS2020 if you start the flight on the airport (runway)

Hi Paul !
I’m not a programmer just a guy who used to hack around with CFG files in FSX and X Plane, forgot most of what I used to know, have to sharpen my tools again I guess.
Maybe I’m missing something, but I have several sailplanes that i imported that do not CTD when started on the ground. The ones that do can sometimes be “fixed” by messing with the contact points in the converter program, but not always. But even the ones that crash on loading can be started in the air landed then re launched in a normal fashion. At least some that I have tried.

Yup, that’s how my SGS 1-26C behaves. However, I fly gliders from a grass strip next to the runway in real life, so what I’ve done is just land the aircraft in the “take-off position” next to the runway, and saved that as a .flt file so I can load it, that should work for the runway too

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