Glider, sailplane, soaring, please!

Hi, PaulFalke. I see; from what you have written, I think I won’t bother Wolfgang about this one. There is not any problem.

Anyway; thank you very much… It was you, who started this great adventure. Bringing back gliders to FS 2020 :smiley: I mean; «gliders» that now are «sailplanes», thanks to the kinetic app. I’m already building the thermal data for my country, on little nav map. Fly safe.

Credit @PaulFalke for the conversion of Walter Piper’s Ka6E from FSX, we now have nicely handling wooden glider in MSFS.

Download here

Paul created a nice little flying video here - your responsibility is to give him a thumbs-up:

Fully compensated Total Energy and Netto varios, Nav instrument which will use MSFS flightplan if loaded (Alt-N for next waypoint), gauges configurable for English (only Nav distance-to-wp in Km) :

or Metric:

(for the gauge units change, see ka6e/html_ui/Pages/VLivery/liveries/Legacy/ka6e_panel/b21_settings/

VR users note this panel is a FLAT 2D FSX conversion. For a native MSFS beautifully sculpted 3D panel with interaction points you’ll need to wait for the custom-built MSFS models.


Yes it was a great experience. I think they mistook me for one of the managers and we were invited to see many things (Verkershaus Musum of Transport Lucerne). It seemed light and the covering was taut-ish but not doped (as far as I can tell) - but sewn and trapped between big ribs and spars. It was comfortable being wedged in by my elbows and shifting weight didn’t seem too much of a problem but one thing occured to me. Landings. Just when I would want to flare and therefore move my body rearwards, I would want to be much further forward so the undercarriage (my legs) would be in the best place. Hmm. Very clever though. He flew that design a fair bit (I believe he even had a small hill ‘built’ for it).
I found this from someone who made & flew another replica.

I quote Wikipedia:
On August 9, 1896, Lilienthal fell near Stölln on Gollenberg from a height of about 15 m. The cause was a “solar gust” (a thermal detachment) that he was unable to control, and not a design flaw. [19] The accident may have been due to the fact that Lilienthal tried again and again to increase his flight distances, for which he had to fly with an increased angle of attack and thus more slowly. The crash could have been the first spin accident in aviation.

The Otto Lilienthal accident can happen today with a modern glider. But today we know: fly slow and die. He did not know this. I assume his glider performed well, even for today’s standards.

Looks like another option for a “bush mission” task. Good for new comers to soaring, I can produce a nice little sight seeing task in MSFS for this, just a short trip as this won’t cover much ground. Thanks for putting gauges in Paul’s conversion.


Another interesting event is over, thanks everyone. Congratulations to @The1l2p for the best time!
We are adding some cool features into ALBATROSS. See you next weekend!


The competition was as intense as exciting. Thank’s again to the Touching Cloud Team for what you are doing. Your planes and tools are fantastic!

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So according to the last Q&A we are still far off any thermals and the realistic/unlimited up and down draft option. ‘‘It needs more improvements and visualizations’’ … :frowning:

I would welcome it at least optional, even if it’s not perfect/ optimized. At least we could play with it and maybe don’t need any artificial thermal mods or very high temperatures and windspeeds in order to fly a Glider mod.

But looks like we still have to wait a very long time for it, which is sad… because it’s basically already there.

Well, we have “marketing speech” and we have “engineering talk”. In marketing, everything was done yesterday and is just “in the mail” to the happy customer. The engineer will tell you that he/she got no order yet to do something.
At the moment Asobo is still “full steam” working on Xbox and Playstation launch. They don’t tell us, that these are the priorities. If we are lucky, the both consoles premieres sail smooth and AFTER this big event of 2021 for Asobo some part of the year is “left over” and can be used for something else. But this something else will be replay functionality.


I have created a wishlist thread about the thermals and up/down drafts.
I don’t know if it will have any effect, but maybe when it gets enough votes it goes higher in the priority list.

So maybe leave a vote there, since this is the biggest point for any glider in msfs.

I am a professional programmer, a pilot and an instructor (CFI-G) and have captured many hours of parameters digitally while flying. I just retired and am looking for a project. So if we can get a couple of people interested perhaps we can create a community project for gliders. I have just finished programming the first version of an AI co-pilot … so I’m ready for something like this. (I have seen thermals in MSFS and a way of visually representing them, so I think gilders were planned for from the eginning).

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Hello Soarscale. My solution to the “sailplanes crash if started from ground” is to give the sailplane a jet engine, but no fuel. See the DG-808S or the Ka6E from MSFS 2020 sailplane

I do not know this method. But, after I found one solution for a problem, I normally do not search for alternative solutions.

I think Alex Marko and his Kinetic Assistant are the best thing that has happened to “Glider, sailplane, soaring” up to now. See Kinetic Assistant - Touching Cloud [OFFICIAL MOD PAGE]
If you like, please look into this program. He uses SimConnect and C# programming language to give the sailplane totally new capabilities. At the “bit shuffling” end of programming the question “how do you make SimConnect communication as realtime as possible” is open. On the “big project” end of programming the visualization of thermals is open. The CumulusX! program of Peter Lürkens does visualize thermals with flying birds. First his program does place thermals at realistic places by itself, give the thermals a “live”, that is thermals creation, getting stronger, later getting weaker again and disappearing. Second he has these soaring birds that circle in the updrafts. I really love these birds!
If you have FSX:Steam - it is real cheap at Steam - you can install the freeware and payware version of CumulusX! to play with the birds yourself. See Peter Lürkens' Flight Simulator Tools
Peter Lürkens has also the WinchX! program that has animation for the winch start of sailplane. This animation is only eye candy. But MSFS 2020 is a lot about eye candy …
Summary: I suggest things that we had in FSX. This is perhaps not “revoltutionary” like simulation one of Elon Musk’s rockets in MSFS 2020. But simulation is about doing the well know stuff in a realistic and pleasant way. WinchX! and CumulusX! are the best starting points for that.

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Here’s a partial update on where we’ve got to with sailplanes/soaring in MSFS to date:

(1) Facebook group: MS Flight Simulator Gliders

(2) Ridge lift: stock MSFS seems to do a pretty reasonable job of this, with soarable ridge lift available on any windward slope with 10+ knots of wind set in the MSFS weather tool.

(3) Thermals: none in stock MSFS although they’re kinda expected as part of the airflow modelling for the Cumulus clouds in a year or so. Thermals can be added into MSFS with Alex Marko’s freeware Kinetic Assistant with the caveat these are not linked to clouds.

(4) Launching: some MSFS gliders are modelled with a hidden, weightless internal jet engine, so Ctrl-E will get you airborn. Also winch launching is available in Kinetic Assistant.

(5) Gliders/Sailplanes:

DG-808S - flapped 18m FSX conversion by Alex Marko, Michael Rossi (flight model) , B21 (gauges). The first glider we got working in MSFS, flies ok, some compromises due to FSX conversion i.e. flat instruments and no panel interaction.

Ka-6E - wood 15m FSX conversion by Paul Falke, B21 (gauges), no panel interaction but flies nicely (MSFS flight model) and good instruments.

Discus 2 - flyable work-in-progress high-performance 15m. (see website for credits). New MSFS aircraft, handles nicely, working set of English/metric gauges.

AS-33 - in development high-performance electric self-launching flapped 18m by Brett Larrett, B21 (gauges). New MSFS aircraft. Comprehensive digital panel with computer vario’s and GPS nav.

Pilatus - in development payware aerobatic glider by Aerosoar.


I made a flight model mod for the FSX Marko, Rossi, Lewis DG 808S for better flight behavior. See MSFS 2020 sailplane

From a Wolfgang Piper FSX sailplane. See

Hello! We would love if anyone will join some existing project, or start a new one.
You can check GitHub - thealx-eech/msfsKineticAssistant to have the idea about how it works. That is my first SimConnect experience, so trying to reach the goal step by step. Most frustrating fact that a lot of variables are disabled for update - we can’t change wind direction and force, scan nearby clouds position, or even animate tow handle in the cockpit.

Fair to mention our ALBATROSS project about competitions. It’s pretty simple at the moment, but we are having progress. It’s code not public available for obvious reason. Last feature btw - Ghost Reply - allow to replay RL tracking data.

Can you please share some details about your observations? I haven’t found a single proof of thermals as a result of any kind of temperature calculations. Even if developers/managers keep telling “it’s already there”.


Currently using kinetic assistant. Can recommend it for those who need a gliding/soaring fix.
Although i do find the kinetic assist UI somewhat cumbersome, the important features are all there. I’d would love to see the kinetic assist features worked into the game.
The sim DEVs should definetly check the addon for an idea of what features they should be aiming for.

Also shout out to the DG808S addon too. Great glider!


The Kinetic assistant is a good workaround to make gliding possible at all.
The only way to gain altitude without that is ridge soaring, but only with strong wind settings.

And because the up/down drafts are currently limited it’s no fun at all.

In the latest Q&A they stated that they have to improve the up and down drafts and thermals (which I never noticed anywhere) before giving us a realism slider, but that is not even started yet/ there is no timeline for that.

so if we want native glider support prioritised, we should all leave a vote right here as well:


Poll in our discord

Changed the name to “Vintage B-4” as Pilatus doesn’t like their copyright hanging over in simulation worlds. It also won’t include any copyright info and will be a strict loose copy. That being said, it will be extremely low cost and depending on the development results, possibly freeware… trying to maintain study level without getting myself into a lawsuit lol

Aside from that the Discus-2b will be entering official release 3.0 on the 20th! Major changes to follow!
Here is the special release trailer!