Everything now is interim, until such time that MS decides to implement all your suggestions into a decent sailplane capable of performing tasks to one degree or another. If MS doesn’t then further independent development will continue as third party efforts, it always does. As it did in FSX, X plane, and now MSFS. |Considering there were no thermals, no sailplanes, and only some kind of awkward slope lift, I’m amazed how far things have come already. I, with the help of your DG, alex’s Kinetic assistant, and Bush trip Generator have been able to assemble fairly interesting sailplane tasks disguised as “Bush Trips”. I already uploaded 3 to Flightsim.TO. with over 500 downloads, so there is some interest. Raising awareness is key right now, to whet the appetite for more involvement, even if what we have at present isn’t perfect.
Thank you, Soarscale! I have not tested these “sailplane tasks” yet. For me it is real fun to work on flight model mod and to learn by the way that the MSFS 2020 has a very realistic simulation core. That simulation core is far from complete, but what is there is of high quality.
To discover and exploit the potential of this simulation core before Asobo is real fun for me! Right now I use my insight to give the Extra 330LT a flight model to perform one more aerobatics maneuver.
Hello. My fellow sailplane enthusiasts; I wanted to ask for a favor, if possible.
My all time favourite sailplane is the Duo Discus. I’ve seen here, some of Mr. Wolfgang Piper’s sailplanes, already converted for MSFS 2020.
I have downloaded the Duo X and tried to convert it for personal use. I’ve spent all afternoon, without success. I am very bad at this conversion thing; especially sailplanes, because they need to be «adapted» to the simulator.
Can someone experienced with this, ask permission to Mr. Piper, to “download/convert” the Duo Discus X and share it? I would be really, really grateful and happy to be able on flying, my favourite bird.
PaulFalke; maybe you could think on this request? Kind regards and fly safe.!
*Task over Douro river, Portugal (LPPR to LPBG)
Hello Inboundf1l1p3, I have an Okay from Wolfgang Piper for sailplanes Ka 6E, ASK23 and glider SG-38. I understand Wolfgang Piper that he does not want more of his sailplanes converted. He wrote:
There are already converter programs for airplanes (FSX to MSFS) on Websites. Publishing converted versions of my airplanes is only permitted with my written permission. I do not recommend installing these aircrafts in MSFS due to lack of instruments, flight characteristics and flight performances do not correspond to those from FSX or P3D. Furthermore, there are often deficiencies in the presentation. These converted planes can also crash the MSFS in some cases, as I heard from some flight simmers.
Yess ! I have had the great pleasure of hanging from a lovely and expensive replica (but not flying it) at a big museum inSwitzerland. Glad they trusted me. It was winched down from above and then winched back up a bit with me in it. Elbows out over structure, hands gripping a spar and then weight shift.
@ Steve1114126 Woww in RL in Switserland… nice you were able to actually feel it ! what is the weight like ? has it like a span canvas, is it rigid or loose…
A simulated version should be just as fragile. At least a very low level stress warning.
Just wonder if it is possible to land it. Start out up 200ft, and gently glide down above the lawn, without breaking it… prof. Lilienthal did not survive his last flight but he flew his plane. Could a model of his airplane carry and land a human safely… a person… it would shed a completely new light on his efforts.
Hi, PaulFalke. I see; from what you have written, I think I won’t bother Wolfgang about this one. There is not any problem.
Anyway; thank you very much… It was you, who started this great adventure. Bringing back gliders to FS 2020 I mean; «gliders» that now are «sailplanes», thanks to the kinetic app. I’m already building the thermal data for my country, on little nav map. Fly safe.
Credit @PaulFalke for the conversion of Walter Piper’s Ka6E from FSX, we now have nicely handling wooden glider in MSFS.
Paul created a nice little flying video here - your responsibility is to give him a thumbs-up:
Fully compensated Total Energy and Netto varios, Nav instrument which will use MSFS flightplan if loaded (Alt-N for next waypoint), gauges configurable for English (only Nav distance-to-wp in Km) :
(for the gauge units change, see
VR users note this panel is a FLAT 2D FSX conversion. For a native MSFS beautifully sculpted 3D panel with interaction points you’ll need to wait for the custom-built MSFS models.
Yes it was a great experience. I think they mistook me for one of the managers and we were invited to see many things (Verkershaus Musum of Transport Lucerne). It seemed light and the covering was taut-ish but not doped (as far as I can tell) - but sewn and trapped between big ribs and spars. It was comfortable being wedged in by my elbows and shifting weight didn’t seem too much of a problem but one thing occured to me. Landings. Just when I would want to flare and therefore move my body rearwards, I would want to be much further forward so the undercarriage (my legs) would be in the best place. Hmm. Very clever though. He flew that design a fair bit (I believe he even had a small hill ‘built’ for it).
I found this from someone who made & flew another replica.
I quote Wikipedia:
On August 9, 1896, Lilienthal fell near Stölln on Gollenberg from a height of about 15 m. The cause was a “solar gust” (a thermal detachment) that he was unable to control, and not a design flaw.  The accident may have been due to the fact that Lilienthal tried again and again to increase his flight distances, for which he had to fly with an increased angle of attack and thus more slowly. The crash could have been the first spin accident in aviation.
The Otto Lilienthal accident can happen today with a modern glider. But today we know: fly slow and die. He did not know this. I assume his glider performed well, even for today’s standards.
Looks like another option for a “bush mission” task. Good for new comers to soaring, I can produce a nice little sight seeing task in MSFS for this, just a short trip as this won’t cover much ground. Thanks for putting gauges in Paul’s conversion.
The competition was as intense as exciting. Thank’s again to the Touching Cloud Team for what you are doing. Your planes and tools are fantastic!
So according to the last Q&A we are still far off any thermals and the realistic/unlimited up and down draft option. ‘‘It needs more improvements and visualizations’’ …
I would welcome it at least optional, even if it’s not perfect/ optimized. At least we could play with it and maybe don’t need any artificial thermal mods or very high temperatures and windspeeds in order to fly a Glider mod.
But looks like we still have to wait a very long time for it, which is sad… because it’s basically already there.
Well, we have “marketing speech” and we have “engineering talk”. In marketing, everything was done yesterday and is just “in the mail” to the happy customer. The engineer will tell you that he/she got no order yet to do something.
At the moment Asobo is still “full steam” working on Xbox and Playstation launch. They don’t tell us, that these are the priorities. If we are lucky, the both consoles premieres sail smooth and AFTER this big event of 2021 for Asobo some part of the year is “left over” and can be used for something else. But this something else will be replay functionality.
I have created a wishlist thread about the thermals and up/down drafts.
I don’t know if it will have any effect, but maybe when it gets enough votes it goes higher in the priority list.
So maybe leave a vote there, since this is the biggest point for any glider in msfs.
I am a professional programmer, a pilot and an instructor (CFI-G) and have captured many hours of parameters digitally while flying. I just retired and am looking for a project. So if we can get a couple of people interested perhaps we can create a community project for gliders. I have just finished programming the first version of an AI co-pilot … so I’m ready for something like this. (I have seen thermals in MSFS and a way of visually representing them, so I think gilders were planned for from the eginning).
Hello Soarscale. My solution to the “sailplanes crash if started from ground” is to give the sailplane a jet engine, but no fuel. See the DG-808S or the Ka6E from MSFS 2020 sailplane
I do not know this method. But, after I found one solution for a problem, I normally do not search for alternative solutions.
I think Alex Marko and his Kinetic Assistant are the best thing that has happened to “Glider, sailplane, soaring” up to now. See Kinetic Assistant - Touching Cloud [OFFICIAL MOD PAGE]
If you like, please look into this program. He uses SimConnect and C# programming language to give the sailplane totally new capabilities. At the “bit shuffling” end of programming the question “how do you make SimConnect communication as realtime as possible” is open. On the “big project” end of programming the visualization of thermals is open. The CumulusX! program of Peter Lürkens does visualize thermals with flying birds. First his program does place thermals at realistic places by itself, give the thermals a “live”, that is thermals creation, getting stronger, later getting weaker again and disappearing. Second he has these soaring birds that circle in the updrafts. I really love these birds!
If you have FSX:Steam - it is real cheap at Steam - you can install the freeware and payware version of CumulusX! to play with the birds yourself. See Peter Lürkens' Flight Simulator Tools
Peter Lürkens has also the WinchX! program that has animation for the winch start of sailplane. This animation is only eye candy. But MSFS 2020 is a lot about eye candy …
Summary: I suggest things that we had in FSX. This is perhaps not “revoltutionary” like simulation one of Elon Musk’s rockets in MSFS 2020. But simulation is about doing the well know stuff in a realistic and pleasant way. WinchX! and CumulusX! are the best starting points for that.
Here’s a partial update on where we’ve got to with sailplanes/soaring in MSFS to date:
(1) Facebook group: MS Flight Simulator Gliders
(2) Ridge lift: stock MSFS seems to do a pretty reasonable job of this, with soarable ridge lift available on any windward slope with 10+ knots of wind set in the MSFS weather tool.
(3) Thermals: none in stock MSFS although they’re kinda expected as part of the airflow modelling for the Cumulus clouds in a year or so. Thermals can be added into MSFS with Alex Marko’s freeware Kinetic Assistant with the caveat these are not linked to clouds.
(4) Launching: some MSFS gliders are modelled with a hidden, weightless internal jet engine, so Ctrl-E will get you airborn. Also winch launching is available in Kinetic Assistant.
DG-808S - flapped 18m FSX conversion by Alex Marko, Michael Rossi (flight model) , B21 (gauges). The first glider we got working in MSFS, flies ok, some compromises due to FSX conversion i.e. flat instruments and no panel interaction.
Ka-6E - wood 15m FSX conversion by Paul Falke, B21 (gauges), no panel interaction but flies nicely (MSFS flight model) and good instruments.
Discus 2 - flyable work-in-progress high-performance 15m. (see website for credits). New MSFS aircraft, handles nicely, working set of English/metric gauges.
AS-33 - in development high-performance electric self-launching flapped 18m by Brett Larrett, B21 (gauges). New MSFS aircraft. Comprehensive digital panel with computer vario’s and GPS nav.
Pilatus - in development payware aerobatic glider by Aerosoar.