I tried a couple of helicopters again a couple of months ago. The throttle didn’t work and the birds were unrealistically hard to control. So I went back to DCS for helicopters. Their Huey is the bomb to fly. Any updates that make them worth the hassle of creating a controller mapping for?
Nope. In fact it’s worse. They just changed the entire flight dynamic again with SU14 and took what was decently working and turned it into absolute garbage. Now all the helicopters that used the 407 model (ie CowanSims) feel off, they padded the code with way too much left pedal now. You fly crooked with your tail out to the side, and now you have to use the incorrect pedal to straighten up during cruise. Why would they take something that’s been in the sim for a year and break it so badly?
Now there will be an update loop Asobo will have to update or Cowan will have to correct the mess they made. Which is unfortunate cause Cowan just announced updates coming to all helis, and now those updates will need an update. And if Asobo changes their flight model again… on goes the loop. I thought I was wise sticking with a Dev that used the in house heli flight dynamics. Guess that was the wrong choice when Asobo can muck it up with some bad code in an update. Go with FlyInside, Shrike, Toag, or Hype Performance Group HPG if you can.
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Rotors are still overpowered just like fixed wing, so no, still no real satisfaction, 95% of everything is still an overly rigid mess. I’ve not noticed cowan helicopters being any worse since su14 though.
I find the DCS Huey pretty bad by DCS standards, it could do with an update too.
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In the MSFS 2024 promo clip they showed a lot of helicopter activities. I truly hope they will work hard on the realism of the helicopter flight model, otherwise I for one won’t be flying those helicopter missions.
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How about the Flyinside birds, do they suffer from the same issue with their separate dynamics model?
The FlyInside 47 and 206 have their own custom flight model code that does not have anything to do with Asobo‘s model, as far as I know. And you have several sliders to adapt the model to your controllers and skills.
Besides the flight models, the simulation of engine limits is also custom coded and probably significantly better. Just be prepared to read some performance tables and accept that both the 47 (piston) and 206 (turbine) are not exactly overpowered in real life, meaning most mountain tops will be out of reach.
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in fact!
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Cowan are flying fine for me don’t see any difference since SU14
infact they feel better than they did after SU13
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You’ve said that. But haven’t read my post or looked at the reference photos huh?
They are not more stable, they are sluggish and slow and fly with the tail out to the side. Asobo obviously padded the code with too much left pedal. They used to feel snappy and responsive.
They are most definitely not flying like they did before 12/5/23 SU14. If you can’t see or feel that I can’t help you.
You don’t need to help me I’m not the one with a problem. They are more responsive and snappy they seem more stable, i’m quite happy to live stream some manoeuvres for you if you wish.
The only thing wrong is ground effect is rubbish though it has never been right so no change there and wind pushes them far to easily unless its a headwind.
As for your posts or pics i dont see any in this thread only some moans in the Bell 407 thread but i m not talking of the 407 that’s not Cowan
A reminder to keep this topic on-topic. If you want to continue participating, avoid posts aimed at other users and focus solely on the discussion.
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You will fly circles around me? i’m not engaging in some childish who is better i was merely going to demonstrate for me i can throw these things around and they don’t do any of what you said they do not kick the tail out unless you want that, they are far from sluggish and they behave as they have always behaved ive been flying helicopters for years . The flight models for all the cowans are different but you seem to be branching them under one flight model , the H125 needs right pedal and works fine which throws your too much left pedal off. id be interested to know as you haven’t mentioned which helicopter you having issues with, is it all of them or just one or two
Again this is the 407 none of the Cowan’s fly anything like the 407.
that would be like saying all prop planes fly like the c152
Also you say you used to fly straight with a little left pedal , well above a certain speed you shouldn’t use pedals much in cruise as the helicopter naturally weather vanes and also
pedal is dependant on torque the more torque the more pedal less torque less pedal.
It is possible they messed with the 407 flight model but it hasn’t affected Cowan’s and which cowan are you seeing this with?
Dont get me wrong there is a lot wrong with asobo flight model and even cowans helicopters but i see nothing su14 broke on Cowan’s, i don’t fly the 407 so i don’t know
Cowans do not use the 407 flight model how can they? H125 rotor spins the opposite way so all physics and it’s translation tendency is different, the B222 is a twin engine, they are all different and consequently i have different setups for each one i also fly HPG, the Allouette and R44 all by different makers there has been no discernible difference in any of them since SU14 . Cowan’s use the native Asobo helicopter physics over a custom one like HPG but the flight model for each heli is different
again you wont say which Cowan? i have a funny feeling you don’t have any and you only fly the 407
I’m not reading another thread to discuss it here i asked you 3 times which helicopter you are referring too it would have been easier just to say… Ive just dismantled my yoke setup to plug joystick in and spent last hour or so trying every Cowan out except 222 apart from the Md500 which has had an update and i feel flies worse everything else was great
I don’t think much has changed in the sim as far as helicopters are concerned since their introduction a year ago. I think that the Cowan MD500 V2 is very good now and incorporates some recent throttle improvements in the sim. We still don’t have a proper force trim or Stability Augmentation System (SAS). I suspect that we won’t get these until msfs 2024. Most helos are flyable but don’t really compare to X-Plane or DCS at this point. One of my favourites is the freeware R44 Raven II from Fred Airland.
I agree R44 is lovely , there are definitely deficiencies in the helicopter model, Ground effect is backwards and i’m sure ETL isn’t modelled right or at all .
though i disagree on MD500 there are some issues with it (ignition on by default and spurious sounds when cold and dark) and it feels more unstable than previous version but that could just be me ive just been flying it around i guess its ok
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I spent the afternoon and evening setting up and tooling around in the G47. What a tough bird to fly. I have a full set of helicopter controls and can maintain a hover in a DCS UH-1H over a crate for several minutes at least. But this thing is all over the place when set to realistic. To read about it, it sounds like the flight model is dead on to IRL. I may try a little curve in the axis controls. I’d rather not have to dumb the aircraft down.
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As an after thought have you checked your flight model for Cowan’s hasn’t changed to Legacy? This has apparently happened to a few people since SU14 and i remeber happened to quite a few people when they first came out
The flight model of all Cowans helicopters uses in its core the same flightmodel as the MSFS Bell 407, and this is build into MSFS2020. When MS/Asobo changes the Helicopter dynamics, it will affect also all that are using it. Flyinside uses its own flight model that is not affected. That is a fact. Just put a little effort in doing your own research when the given info in this thread isn’t convincing you.
SU14 brought several changes to the Helicopter flight model and changed the anti-torque behavior beyond recognition (at least for me), and now it don’t pass a simple Logic-Check (Cruise-flight/Flare). The flight behavior is more like ‘on rails’. This change is also recognizable in the in Cowans MD-500.
The only Helicopter in MSFS2020 at the moment that is at the same time challenging and satisfying to fly, and somewhat “lives and breathes” is Flyinside B-206. The flight model is calculated in an external app. The downside is a hit in frame rates, and I am scratching 30fps in VR (interpolated to90 in the Goggles). So I wish the Stock 407 could provide a similar behavior. The simulated B206 has a high tendency to “run away” in lateral direction, but a setting of 20percent stability and 5%antitourqe stability fixed it for me.
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