Helicopter flight is now possible with the H135

Excellent you should contact Airbus you may be onto something !

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I don’t have any issue with it at all but there a a lot of sim pilots that demand precise simulation but if you ask 10 pilots how a B206 flies you will get 29 different answers depending on the day.

I also fly toy helicopters ( RC) and I find that they are actually far more challenging to fly than a real helicopter !

This h135 is far more than toy like as it simulates all the basic flying control inputs very well. Ok, there are some what we call secondary effects of controls missing which create force couples but for the purpose of flying VFR in a generic flight model I have nothing to complain about.

If I want to be challenged by a better flight model I’ll go to X plane but that lacks the VFR so therefore I use both depending on what I want to do.

It’s all very good since the h135 appeared and it seems to get better every week and now we have others with helicopters coming so its kept the buggers honest and that’s the greatest gift of this freeware!

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Well I would love the chance to fly a real Bell 47G as a real pilot and I think its a great place to start as with the bubble cockpit it will make flying in the sim much easier due to the increased outside visual reference points.

No, disagreement is not nitpicking. Also, the H135 is not the greatest thing since sliced bread. But it is the only game in town, for the moment. Let me make this simple comparison. Is a free or paid simulated helicopter, simulated in a consumer software, run on a desktop PC able to replicate fatefully, the experience of flying a several million-dollar real world helicopter, through real weather, with real gravity, consuming real fuel, etc. The answer is obvious. That is nitpicking.

I own and drive Corvettes. I sometimes track race them. I’ve played every racing simulation I can get my hands on. I have high-end pedals and Force feedback wheels to help with the emersion. I’ve even driven in the game/sim the same model Corvettes I own. Yet not a single consumer-based PC racing sim can replicate the experience and the feel of driving the real thing in the real world. So, why are some here expecting the same thing from a helicopter in a desktop PC game/sim? In my opinion that is the definition of nitpicking! Simulations are supposed to be fun. Let them be that.

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I had no fun with MSFS until the H135 turned up, its now msfs is 100% fun !

Well said. I am a pilot and I agree. Most/all pilots that I know agree.

The real world operating helicopters is much more complex than 100% accurate VRS, translational lift, and all the rotor dynamics and aerodynamics some are alluding to. Its also about how the air is moving around objects and obstructions in the vicinity, close and far. The best analogy I can give is that:

  1. Airplanes are like canoes on open smooth flowing rivers…
  2. Gliders are like those canoes, as the water flows over a submerged wier…
  3. Helos are like being in the rapids.

For fun and accessibility, that H135 is awesome. Look at what Rotor Sim Pilot is doing on YouTube. Look at the number of downloads. Look at the pure enjoyment it’s giving to so many. Look at the attention it is bringing to the game platform and the future helicopter category.

It’s a significant achievement and having a significant impact way beyond these discussions.

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Hello Mark.

Looking back at the posts, can you help me by clarifying:

  • do you feel that all efforts to bring helicopters to the game platform until Asobo officially supports this will have a high “kludge” coefficent?
    or
  • are you saying that you think other helicopter models already available have lower coefficents of “kludge”?

I don’t see anyone oppressing you opinion, I think we each choose what’s most important for our gaming experience (and tailor our financial outlay accordingly).

I applaud all the efforts udnerway to bring helicopters to the game. Certainly the comminity and forum contributors have expressed the need loudly. Personally, I think the H135 is significant beyond any discussion of flight model accuracy.

I disagree. It’s not nitpicking. It’s aiming for goals that you know are achievable and wanting to enjoy them. Which is as valid as not wanting them at all. Just because there are limits, it doesn’t mean people shouldn’t, at least, want to reach out for those limits.

In line with what I said above, because we know it’s possible to reach to that level and people find it fun that way. Me being one of them. Should I be excluded just because my simming is different from those that are truly enjoying the 135?

Should we be excluded just because we fly helicopters? Were we happy to see there were no helicopters in MSFS when it first came out? Were we nitpicking? We could fly after all. I know, it’s not exactly the same. Still, it’s about excluding people from the hobby just because they are looking for something different.

Of course, “different” is always relative. I wouldn’t want to fly Dumbo in MSFS, for example and I wouldn’t demand MS for “elephant flight dynamics”. But I am sure someone would!

But just because I want something different, I am not labeling or criticizing those that are perfectly happy and going boinkers with the H135. People look for different things in sims. Most of the folks trying the 135 never even tried helicopters in a sim before. And they don’t care. They just want to grab it and fly around in what, in their mind, a helicopter is: an elevator with a fan on top.

I have to say it does worry me a bit as it may give people the wrong perception of what a real helicopter is. “Real” being absolutely relative since – we know that already – a home PC won’t be able to actually do a perfect job.

I am concerned, for example, as to how the Bell 47 is going to be received, because, out of the box, it’s a much, much harder helicopter to control. People will crash imediately if they don’t take 2 minutes to skim through the manual and understand what they need to do to make it easier for them.

The H135 democratized helicopters in MSFS in a way we didn’t expect but, at the same time, I worry that it set the bar too low and most people now see it as the standard for helicopter flight in the sim.

This can eventually hurt sales of the Bell 47 and any future helicopters as people may start bashing it and saying “it’s too hard” or that it’s “broken” because they can’t fly it. Which can translate to these developers giving up on making helicopters at this level, because it’s not worth the hassle since everyone just wants something simpler.

That will prevent me and others from enjoying the sim.

It is possible to cater for both types of simmers. None of them is absolutely right, none of them is wrong. People are enjoying the H135, I’ll be enjoying the Bell 47. It’s a different way of using helicopters in the sim (although you can make the B47 quite tame and easy to fly but I am using both as being “opposed” in their flight model to illustrate a point).

Saying that I want a better, more “lifelike” or “realistic” (again, with a huge pinch of salt, just like with anything in PC simming) is nitpicking is like saying those that are happy with the H135 and how it flies are too acceptive and have no standards (or whatever the opposite of nitpicking is).

Doing so serves no purpose, has no positive impact whatsoever in the community and in these products and it only serves to divide people that should be joined in the passion for helicopters (and, quite honestly, independently of the sim you use).

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Hello Sergio:

I agree that “H135 democratized helicopters in MSFS in a way we didn’t expect”.

However to say that the bar is set “too low” is a fundamental misunderstanding of the concept behind the development effort. It’s also contradictory, because how can it be too low a bar if it brings democratization of helicopters?

I haven’t seen anyone “comparing” H135 and B47 mods in this way, as they have different aims. By your own words you consider the B47 to be a potentially negative experience. I think that this is very unfair to the B47 development team.

What I am very confident to state is that to date H135 has objectively had a significant impact, bringing people (and their preffered method of payment) to FS 2020 and helicopters.

Airbus Helicopters H135 Community Mod - Self-Service / Wishlist - Microsoft Flight Simulator Forums

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I don’t know. It depends on how they are doing their flight model. The H135 has this mysterious “invisible wing” which is not explained. Coming from X-plane, I’m used to an actual physics-based helicopter model. I don’t know how third-party helicopters are doing what they are doing without in-game support.

Again, I have no idea. None of them really explain anything.

I know that the big guys like PMDG aren’t using the default MSFS flight model and are creating their own flight model. If a developer was doing that for an independant helicopter model and it was sufficiently “physics-based” then I would not consider it a kludge.

When you can have a flying donut in MSFS, I have to be a little suspicious of aircraft that are too good to be true.

I’m not misunderstanding the development effort and I’m not devaluing it like I said. And it’s not contraditory either.

When I meant it democratized helicopters, I wanted to say it became popular and used by a lot of people. It had the biggest growth than in any other platform, on the user base. Not on the development base. We may not be talking about the same concept here. I’m just mentioning it’s reaching a lot of people.

Again, I have the utmost respect for these devs and my opinion on the product does not mean I do not appreciate their hard work.

You’ll probably won’t see anyone comparing the 135 and the B47 until the B47 is released. I don’t consider the B47 to be a negative experience. I have no idea how you managed to take that information from what I said. I’ve been saying exactly the opposite.

I don’t think we are in tune here. On both your remarks you completely distorted and turned my words the exact other way around from what I was saying.

Hi Mark,

PMDG is eagerly awaited certianly (including pricing). “Invsible wing” or not, the H135 is available, representative and fun even for real pilots. It’s creating buzz. This is good.

In the real world there are things that are flyble that shouldn’t be, where computers take over from an aerodynamic flight model to make it fly (X29, F117, and many many more). I’m personally not especially interested in flying a donut or a Star Wars Tie Fighter, but I can understand why others do.

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Hello Sergio,

If I’ve misunderstood you, then please correct me, I’m always interested in changing my mind.

You spoke of how H135 is democratizing helicopters, then immediately stated that “this can eventually hurt sales of the Bell 47 and any future helicopters”. If anything, bringing more people will increase sales for any and all developers who have a well concieved development strategy.

FS 2020 is a great game platform. I think that the future is exciting on many levels. Like other platforms, they will rise and fall not on how true they are to the real world, but how they engage people in sufficient numbers to be sustainable/profitable, and how they retain and expand that engagement.

I think on this basic alone H135 has done well already, and its very exciting to see where they (and others) go next, especially as Asobo/Microsoft advance the platform to allow better helicopter operations (not just flight model possibilities, but as importantly wind models, ATC, and all the other areas where the nature of rotary wing operation is truly different and unique).

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The H135 brought helicopters into people’s attention and a lot of them are using it. Mostly, because it has quite an easy and forgiving flight model. You jump into it, fly it around and it feels like you are mastering helicopters and “it’s not that hard after all”.

The Bell 47, with its default settings is not like that. It’s not stable. You are not going to pull the collective and add a tad of pedal and rises easily. You won’t be hovering in a few seconds. You’ll more than likely crash. You will have to pay attention when curving. It behaves a lot like what a real helicopter is.

Is that a bad experience? No. It’s a helicopter experience. Get your hands on the DreamFoil Creations S300 for X-Plane and you will go through the same difficulties.

The same with the Aerofly FS2 R22. Or the Huey for DCS. All these sims replicate helicopters the best they can, considering we’re talking about home computer systems.

People that have no experience with helicopters and are trying the H135 will get used to it and may have the wrong idea about what helicopters are and how they should be included in a sim. Sure, it works for them. But they may not enjoy it on the default settings because they are harder. And that could mean backlash to the developers.

Not because they did a bad job, but because they did a job that resembles reality a bit more.

Having that said, I do defend having the ability to tune it to your preferences and make it as easy or as hard as you want it. If that happens, I am all for it and we are including everyone.

I may be suffering from anticipation but I have seen how the community can react and create a lot of backlash and grief to developers if things are not the way they think they should be.

I am perfectly fine with people enjoying the H135. It’s their choice, it’s their way of simming, I have nothing against it. I don’t like it myself, I don’t use it. People ask me about it, I’m honest and tell them what is my personal take on it. My readers want my opinion and they know I am honest and neutral.

You may see me criticizing a product but you will never see me bashing the developer or their work. I can point things I don’t like but I will also do it in a polite, responsible, respectful way. I know people will disagree with me and that is perfectly fine. I have zero issues with that and I don’t expect everyone to agree. We all have our own idea, goals and tastes.

So, in short:

  1. I am OK with the existance of the H135. I don’t like it myself because of my personal goals but I have no problem with those that do and use it. It’s their choice and it’s as correct as my own choice.
  2. I am concerned that developers that go beyond the basic flight dyamics and want to add a more “realistic” flight model may bet some backlash from the community because their helicopter is “broken”.
  3. I hope people enjoy helicopters, learn more about them and understand how amazing it can be to fly them. I have been using them pretty much exclusively in a bunch of different sims for the last 15+ years and it has been a fantastic experience.
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Personally I have many thousands of hours in the cockpits of actual airplanes and helicopters.
A game platform at current state of the art cannot give people the “right” idea about helicopters.
All it can do is give a “taste” and light up our imagination.

And just like every other development team, I imagine that the people developing H135 have plans to continue development and improve in every area. So, it’s very generous of you to be “OK with the existance of H135”, I will continue to rejoice it’s existence everytime I try to get it onto a moving ship in a stormy sea (and I am honest/humble enough to stress the word “try”).

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Oh I’m not here to be generous. I’m just giving my opinion like anyone else. But I rather not label people or their opinions. You’re enjoying it? Awesome. Good for you. You’re taking something out of it for yourself, based on what you want from the sim. That’s how it should be and no one should be judging you or your opinion.

I know I’m not.

The title is “Helicopter flight is now possible with the H135”.

According to your message, on H135: “I don’t like it myself, I don’t use it”.
So you don’t like it and you don’t fly it, so then how can your opinion be valid?
Rotor Sim Pilot flies and enjoys both B47 and H135, his opinion is worthwhile.

I guess what’s confusing is that you appear to be “trolling” on this thread.

If I hadn’t tested it I wouldn’t know if I would like it.

By your logic I would have to be using it daily so that my opinion about not liking it to be valid.

I try every single version that comes out. Do my tests and reach my conclusions. Yet, I do not use it on my simming, because I don’t like how it behaves.

I really don’t see how that is so weird.

Hello Sergio,

Normalizing tangential discussion is a definition of trolling.
Make a seperate thread about why you like your preferred mod (and, if you like, a comparision of why it is better for you than another mod).
That way your comments and opinions will have greater context.

I don’t need to make a thread about my favorite mod. I just gave my personal input on the H135 which is the topic at hand. Just because it doesn’t align with your own perspective, I don’t see why it should be considering trolling or less valid.

I think this is supposed to be a place for the community do discuss their ideas and different opinions, not just to act as an echo chamber. If anything, I am the one that feels being trolled.