Issue 1: The force trim release (FTR) button is not behave correctly.
When holding down the FTR button and move the cyclic to a position, once FTR button released the cyclic should remain in that position, however in current build the cyclic would jump back to center.
Issue 2: When holding the FTR button, trim moving is reversed. For example, holding the FTR button and move the cyclic forward, the trim will move backward.
If applicable, which aircraft is experiencing this issue:
I’ve tested 2 helicopters, B407 and G2, they all have the same issue.
[PC Only] Did you remove all your community mods/add-ons? If yes, are you still experiencing the issue?
FTR was not behave correctly, so I installed the Input Viewer to record the video.
FREQUENCY OF ISSUE
How often does this occur for you (Example: Just once, every time on sim load, intermittently)?
All the time.
REPRODUCTION STEPS
Please list clear steps you took in order to help our test team reproduce the same issue:
Assign SET HELCOPTER FORCE TRIM RELEASE BUTTON on the joystick
Hold FTR and move cyclic to any position but center.
Release FTR.
[PC Only] Are you using Developer Mode or have you made any changes to it?
No.
MEDIA
[END OF FIRST USER REPORT]
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Do you have the same issue if you follow the OP’s steps to reproduce it?
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Provide extra information to complete the original description of the issue:
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If relevant, provide additional screenshots/video:
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What you describe is what I would expect in a force feedback setup. The pyhsical servos would fight against my movement unless I pressed FTR, and when I released FTR the servos would hold the stick in the current position.
But when using a joystick with a centering spring, the MSFS2024 implementation actually makes a lot of sense. You press FTR while moving back to center, and the trims move in the opposite direction so the helicopter stays in the same attitude.
HPG’s implementation in the H145/H160 tries to simulate the real FTR behavior so you press the FTR button before you move the cyclic to a new stable position. But then there is the tricky phase when you release the FTR button and return the joystick to the center. I think HPG have implemented a delay of a few hundred miliseconds to make sure that while the joystick moves back to center, the attitude of the helicopter does not change.
To me the Asobo implementation makes a lot of sense and works very well for simple helicopters in combination with a joystick with centering spring.
The issue is not how MSFS2024 implemented the FTR by using a simulated trim movement to accommodate spring-centered joystick users. The problem lies in the incorrect mechanics of the FTR itself.
It doesn’t matter how the developers decided to make FTR suitable for the spring-centered joystick, the bottom line is cyclic should be able to reposition in the sim.
In DCS, the developers usually provide 3 methods for users to fit their hardware for FTR, one of them is called Central mode, this is close to what HPG does, the difference is once FTR button is released, your joystick input will essentially be cleared until you move the joystick back to the center to regain control.
Regardless of the method chosen, correct FTR behavior means that depressing the FTR allows the cyclic to be repositioned to a new position. Once the FTR button is released, the cyclic should remain in that position.
The current implementation is incorrect because it requires the user to press the FTR while moving the joystick back to the center, which should only happen after releasing the FTR button.
If I hold the FTR button and push my joystick forward, the helicopter should move forward—not backward. When I release the FTR, this is where the developers should provide more options for users with spring-centered joysticks to re-center their controls.
Do you have the same issue if you follow the OP’s steps to reproduce it?
Yes, holding the FTR Button cancels out any cyclic movement being transferred to a change in attitude although you still can see the virtual cyclic move, even the swashplate if you look from the outside. The helo just don’t reacts.
Provide extra information to complete the original description of the issue:
• I’m playing with a force feedback stick, and this mechanic brakes all helicopters for me, because the whole sense of this stick - getting realistic force trim behaviour - is negated.
There needs to be an option for force feedback users to turn that off, so you can steer without spring forces when holding the FTR Button.
If relevant, provide additional screenshots/video:
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