I’m flying the A320. The airport I want to land at, has only one approach, not in the favorable direction. The real airport has numerous approaches to choose from. So I attempt to build the approach from the FMGC anyways. I check the moving map, and sure enough, the fixes are all there. I type in the fixes, I get the “Not in database” error. But, they are there on the map! How can proper named fixes that’s clearly placed in the right part of the world, not be in the database?
Comments? Solutions?
Sounds like the nav data for that airport is incomplete in the sim. Nothing new there. There are a lot of missing SIDs, STARs and approaches in the sim.
I know at my local airport, the only approach in the game is a single ILS when in reality there’s 1 ILS and 3 RNAV approaches.
And that’s why I use Navigraph. Its data is complete.
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Are the fixes on the World Map?
What @Crunchmeister71 said. There are just way too many stuff missing from the navdata. Holds and Missed approaches are entirely missing and unusable in flights although you can view the latter using Little Nav Map. Even some of the Asobo-handcrafted airports might have missing stuff. NZQN (handcrafted) has one of the RNAV approaches totally missing.
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Not sure if Asobo or Navblue are to blame for the lousy nav data. In any case, the stock nav data is poor and incomplete compared to real world nav data.
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No. But they are on the VFR map. Which is strange, because it’s a “VFR” map. But, no the fixes are not on the world map.
Does Navgraph include fixing missing ATC approaches? If so, I may try it.
It fixes anything that’s wrong with nav data including adding missing waypoints, approaches, arrivals, and departures that ATC can’t then use and sign.
ATC is still as dumb as a sack of hammers though.
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I watched a stream recently where the pilot wanted to fly an IFR approach as published. After putting the procedure into the FMS, the nav points appeared to be in the correct location, but they had names that were absolutely nothing like what could be found on the chart.
After the latest navdata update for MSFS, I also loaded that new database into LittleNavMap and on my first flight, I discovered that LittleNavMap was unable to find a number of procedures, nav points and airways that exist in real life as per the latest AIRAC.
After some searching, I found that LittleNavMap also incorporates the (outdated) Navigraph AIRAC 1801.
When I disabled that, LNM did find all the real nav points again. Unfortunately, by doing so, I also lost all information on SIDs and STARs. (see image)
I’m not sure if that means that LNM can’t extract everything out of MSFS, or if the MSFS database really only contains the final approach procedures and relies on some other - most likely outdated - AIRAC source for SIDs, STARs and transitions.
It is definitely NavBlue. Their data for small to mid-sized US airports is horrid. I have posted before about my home airport, KELM, which since the beginning of the alpha to the present day has been missing 5 of the 6 existing approaches: all the RNAV approaches and the ILS 24 are not present in MSFS, and the one ILS that does exist (ILS 06), has obsolete fix names that were changed 6 years ago.
In the new 2014 AIRAC that just released a few days ago, they finally fixed the obsolete ILS 06 approach. It is now missing too, so KELM has no approaches whatsoever!
All six approaches are present and work perfectly with Navigraph data installed.
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I would have been fired, at the very least, had I attempted to commercially transport passengers, referencing out of date data or actually flying a route without the required charts on board. I cannot understand how NavBlue can be a certified database provider for real world navigation when their data is missing so much required info.
Granted, I predate most of the current tech and harken back to flight cases crammed with flipcharts but I would have thought with the advances, the data supplied to the technology would be more complete than even the best prepared hard copy pilot.
I assume the choice to partner with NavBlue was part of the AirBus agreement?
Leaves us in a position where the only alternative for simpilots wishing to fly without airfield limitations have to pay for a subscription service to be sure our databases are complete. my vote would be for A/MS to revisit that partnership and have a conversation with some of the other alternatives.
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Did you try to type in the name of the fix on the world map bar?
I found several that way that weren’t showing up.
It must have been.
Jeez, you should see the latest Stars from Navblue into CYHZ, the data base doesn’t even have close to the right waypoints.
The latest update changed it completely, taking you about 50-60 nm off the current routes.
It is utterly terrible.
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This would be a great topic to ask about in Microsobo’s next Q & A. Is there a collection of questions yet we can add to? Thanks.
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The beauty of using Navigraph data is that you can also inject it into LNM and most other popular 3rd party tools. That way, your sim and tools are playing with the same Jeppesen data set and all AIRAC cycles are correct, so there are no discrepencies. You don’t plan a flight on Simbrief, only to find that part of it doesn’t work in LNM and most of the waypoints don’t exist in MSFS.
A French company partnering with another French company is what it comes down to.
Now, from what I understand (please someone correct me if I’m wrong), Navblue is owned by Airbus (well known fact) and in the real world they provide data to European airlines for Eurasian routes. All other parts of the world, including airlines flying Airbus planes, use Jeppesen charts, (owned by Boeing). So that would mean they have awesome coverage of their part of the world, but the rest of the world’s data is a bit spotty. And that’s likely why we’re seeing such incomplete or incorrect data in MSFS using the stock nav data.
That’s my rudimentary understanding of it from random stuff I’ve read over the last months. I could be horribly wrong as I’m definitely no expert on this subject. And if I am, please let me know. I don’t want to be propagating incorrect information.
And it’s not just missing approaches, waypoints, etc. The Navblue data is seriously flawed in North America. There’s one nearby airport that if I follow the RNAV down (with stock data), it will land me 1 mile past the end of the runway into Lake Ontario. The database also contains ILS approaches to runways that no longer exist as well. One particular example I’ve encountered is an airport near my place that if you follow the ILS 24 down, it will land you on a taxiway to the left of the runway because 10 years ago they built a new runway 24, turning the old runway into a taxiway. The Navblue data still has the old runway. So that data is a decade out of date.
I started using Navigraph back in October and haven’t encountered any non self-inflicted nav issues since.
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Makes you wonder what the legal ramifications would be if an aircraft from Europe, using NavBlue data crossed the pond and attempted an approach in IMC that resulted in a CFIT incident as a result of bad data.
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I suspect that planes that will travel to NA are likely pre-loaded with Jeppesen data instead of Navblue.
SID’s don’t work with LNM, and you have to use Navigraph data for those. A quote from the LNM change log:
Little Navmap cannot read SID and STAR from MSFS. Documentation about MSFS format changes are needed in SDK.
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NavBlue is actually headquartered in Canada, though owned by Airbus.
There is no technical requirement that an Airbus use NavBlue AIRAC data. The choice of database provider is entirely up to the individual airline.
The procedures I have seen in MSFS default data for large international airports in the US appear reasonably current and complete - but that is definitely not the case with smaller US airports. Missing approach data is bad enough, but there is no excuse for providing obsolete data.
I don’t see this as being an Asobo problem, (other than choosing unwisely in their choice of database provider). They just translate the monthly update files that NavBlue provides into BGL format for use in the sim.
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Thank you for that clarification.
I can’t speak for arrival, approach and departure procedures from the large airports from personal experience using the default data. But I assume that taxiway data is also derived from Navblue. And taxiway labelling is out to lunch on most airports, be they large or small.
