Thanks for your input.
Hopefully more people state exactly what they want, and then maybe we can work on some solutions.
If we removed all the instruments and dashboard, how would we retain the nose in your mind? Have a big cut out of the entire cockpit area, cut out only the forward view region (keeping side windows intact - this may be difficult for some aircraft though), or retain the cockpit dashboard and pillars, just with no instruments on it.
Just trying to understand what the community really wants.
For me it’s all about the view you would get from the pilots seat. If you are cockpit building and are interested in this feature I guess you have the instrument panel and perhaps also the glareshield. If you take those away you are left with the windows, the items that interact with windows such as rain,ice, wipers, deice heaters etc and the view of the aircraft nose and beyond. For single engine prop aircraft this obviously also includes the prop.
I’m hoping that with the right improvements to the multi monitor support we will be able to save and recall these kinds of views on a per aircraft basis so no changes to the supplied aircraft are even required.
It also depends on the kind of cockpit you’re building. If you’re going the whole way with a complete shell which has its own windows, you don’t want window glass or rain / ice effects on the screen because it won’t look right. You just want an unencumbered outside view to place beyond your physical window. I mean, short of having an actual rain dispenser and windscreen wipers on your actual cockpit windows, you can’t really properly simulate rain on the windscreen in that kind of cockpit setup anyway!
(I suppose you could place monitors in the window frames so as to exactly simulate the windows in the cockpit. I’ve seen that kind of setup before. But it’s complicated and MSFS can’t do the display angles necessary to do it properly anyway.)
“Just trying to understand what the community really wants.”
For what it’s worth here’s my 2 cents worth.
I would be willing to pay plenty (subjective term I know) for a model that allows me to have the view shown in the photograph of my sim using P3D.
That is:-An undocked (popped out) GNS530 and ability to see the aircraft model without the cockpit window pillars or instruments.
I have built a full sized replica of the Beech Baron that I flew in the early 1990’s
Thanks very much for your input.
And would you ever want to look outside your aircraft to take screenshots?
Up close? Or only from a distance?
Consider this for example.
I’ve cut away the pillars and the panel area.
The interior could be completely removed, or to be more comprehensive, the panel and internal pillars and doors removed, keeping the rest of the aircraft interior intact.
Now this could apply to LOD00 (When you’re really close, for example inside the aircraft), and the standard Caravan LODs could apply from outside when you’re further away for screenshots etc.
Would this be a viable solution?
Or is removing the entire front of the aircraft forward of the pilot more what we’re after? (Or probably further back to remove the A-pillar like the first example…)
These examples would only apply to LOD00, so further away externally the cockpit and fuselage would look normal.
What are the thoughts from some of the other pilots here with home cockpits?
I have never taken a screen shot in 7 years of simulator flying. So to put it in just one word - No.
This looks hopeful. Removing the A-pillar is essential. But note: I need the Asobo Baron G58 model.
This is a pretty exciting possibility Parorng
I wonder how one would pop out, say, the GNS from the instrument panel (as it is in my photograph above) if they were removed from the model?
Would it be possible to leave the instruments in the model (for those who want to pop out one or more) but remove the compass that sits on top of the glare shield?
Well we could leave the cockpit, but remove everything above the glareshield.
The issue with that is that it is a huge amount of work, as you’d need to remake and reanimate the entire cockpit.
Unless we made a generic cockpit that could ‘plug in’ below the modelled dash, that could be used for all models. I have no idea how difficult that would be though.
The other issue is that everyone wants a different instrument, a different GPS stack, analogue or EFIS instruments, airspeed indicator that goes to x knots at full scale.
I’ve not delved into WASM for the electronic instruments before, analogue are much easier (for me) as they’re just modelled and animated.
Whichever solution we find, it will only be suitable for some.
This would most likely work for me, but I don’t know how much work it would involve. If we left everything alone below the glare shield, why does the cockpit have to be “reanimated”? Sorry, I admit I am ignorant.
Simply because the importer isn’t up to scratch, nor is it approved by Asobo, only the exporter. The importer brings in the model, but all the textures need to be reassigned, and all the animations redone. It’s a big big job. Some would say it would be easier to make your own cockpit.
Which we could do. Perhaps design a cockpit that we’d never look at anyway, because you use your own. But it would keep the functionality of your instruments working.
But then an instrument for one aircraft won’t fit another, and then you’d need to do the animations again.
An easier solution is to not have any instruments at all in the model. But I’m unsure how that works with the cockpits you have and whether that would render them unusable.
I’m not shure how this work either, but i do know that you can slash // out instrument in the airplanes
Panel.cfg in panel folder, but is you would do that you will end up with holes in the cp dashboard, also will the plane loose functionality of the instruments you slash out.
Shame you can’t just assign a LoD-1 (minus 1) to some elements to tell them not to draw at all!
Would be nice, but that would be defined in the model anyway. LODs are actually different models.
Yeah but they are nested in the same parent aren’t they? (I’m only used to Unity so not sure about what FS uses)
That’s doable now with a small edit to the models.cfg file. And you’re right - there’s no instruments to pop out to any bezel - either virtual (as in Air Manager) or 3D hardware as shown in my photograph above. My analog instruments displayed via Air Manager all still work though, even when the interior model is not loaded. Also worth noting (in light of your comment above) that the analog instruments work even though the Asobo G58 model has the glass (electronic) cockpit. I edited the reference to the G1000 FMC in the Baron’s cfg to point to the GNS530 instead. Works a treat but only if the interior model is loaded.
That I’m still figuring out. Probably, but I haven’t had the time to discover how to implement/create them yet.
That’s interesting to hear. Air Manager may just access the simvars directly. If that’s the case, we wouldn’t need a cockpit loaded (for Air Manager users at least).
Yes AM communicates worth it’s own wasn. You would actually still require some instruments unless you have a way to get popout instruments like PFD/MFD or GNS and GTN to still work without a visible panel.
I commend the thoughts on this I really do but I think a solution for this needs to come from improvements to the multi monitor support. I think having what other sims have for the setup of those solves most of this.
IMHO, the problem lies in the basic structure of the sim itself.
Sims like P3D and X-Plane were designed to be used as professional flight trainers with an external cockpit and instruments with the internal views as something of a “special case” - or the cockpit view is programmatically decoupled from the aircraft itself - like a plug-in - that can be removed and replaced with real instrumentation. Likewise, with the appropriate license, you can actually use spherical projection models to simulate a more realistic out-the-window view.
On the other hand, MSFS has always been thought of as a “game” that you play on a monitor or large TV with game inputs like HDMI. As a consequence, the idea of decoupling the internal view from the external (out the cockpit view) hasn’t been a priority.
As a consequence, I doubt that MSFS will ever be able to duplicate the out-the-window experience of either P3D or X-Plane - it just isn’t designed for that.