How can we improve the state of discussion on these forums and avoid non-constructive negativity?

Trying to get back on topic after a few humorous posts.

Perhaps one of the ways to improve the state of discussions on these forums is to really hide the flagged/hidden posts until dealt with by Forum Admin. Posters who know that their posts will violate the CoC but can still be read do not see the futility of their posts, i.e. they nevertheless make them because they think they will still be read.
On other forums, such posts are always deleted and not hidden but readable.

It does seem a bit odd that flagged posts can be read. I have to admit I tend to indulge in morbid curiosity, and always take a peak anyway. Most of the time, the decision has been spot on, but on one or two occasions I have wondered why a post got flagged.

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Yes. agree. Retribution?
I think Forum Admin would also have to control the abuse of the privilege to hide posts.

A month! ‘You were lucky’ to paraphrase [parrot phrase] a certain Yorkshire man.
I am a carer and have been in lockdown since last March!

But I am not suggesting we start a game of CoVid trump’s here.
That is one game no’one should play. Haha.
Regards.

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Is for Asobo and MS to decide what this game is.

If for a second we agree it’s a flight simulator more than arcade flyer, they should:

  1. Deliver stable base edition of the game supporting good/stable flight model

  2. Deliver basic aircraft functions that work reliably, example auto pilot.

  3. Integrate all basic functionality into world flying performance

Frustration that yields negative discussion is due to not actually having a stable flight sim.

It was not delivered stable, based on reported issues.

I know this is not an easy task in software development on this scale, but to be honest, at this stage, it’s a ■■■■ show.

Probably in years time we will get a good enough version. Problem is, I don’t think customers will have that patience.

So basically Asobo is to define proper constraints on what is delivered, so expectations are managed.

The project time scale I see is vague.

The recent quote from the Moderator below in a related thread is relevant here. Cheers.

Beechc23Forum Moderator Team

10h

We want to make these forums a positive environment for you to discuss Microsoft Flight Simulator related topics, and to give us your feedback on the sim.

Recently the team has received a number of complaints about the negative atmosphere on the forums. These complaints stem from excessive negative non-constructive posts.

These posts do not provide meaningful information that helps in the development of the simulator. Instead, these topics are often duplicate an existing topic and create conflict that usual require moderator intervention. These posts hurt the atmosphere of the forums, which drives some of our community away and may prevent others from joining.

We value constructive criticism about MSFS as it helps the developers further understand, triage and resolve problems within MSFS.

Take the following example posts:

Non-Constructive
The ATC in this simulator is ■■■■

Constructive
ATC’s altitude instructions are awful. I was on a flight from KSFO to KDEN in an A320N, when ATC cleared me for descent below the minimum safe altitude. If I stayed at a safe altitude it would cancel my IFR clearance and my approach, so I followed their instructions leading to a crash on the side of a mountain.

ATC needs to take the terrain into account when issuing clearances!

The non-constructive example (top) provides no meaningful information, no one will be able to understand, reproduce or document the issue, and therefore the issue cannot be resolved.

We ask that you consider this going forward. We continue to welcome criticism and complaints so long as they are constructive in nature. You can read more about our policy change here.

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This is a really good question. I think in part the problem extends well beyond this forum, though. Research psychologists (of which I’m one, sort of) have noted a significant rise in self-entitlement and narcissism in recent decades, at least in certain cultures, and it’s well known how much people on social media (especially forums) become dangerously insulated from the people they hurt and so end up being ruder and more antisocial than they ever would face-to-face.

But above all, we’re going through a really terrible period in human history right now, from the rapid rise of fascism and populism (both of them narcissistic phenomena, if you think about it) to a major pandemic. Most of us are not very self-aware at the best of times, and stress and fear make us even less so. Virtually everybody is chronically frightened to some degree - it’s just human nature, because we arrive on Earth without an instruction manual. What varies is not the presence of fear but the degree to which people are aware that they are frightened. It’s perfectly possible to be existentially terrified and not know it - a lot of personality disorders are fueled this way. And one of the most common ways in which fear expresses itself in those who are not really aware of its presence is that they become aggressive and pugnacious.

One powerful source of existential fear in the 21st Century is technology. Nobody wants to admit that they don’t understand how their cellphone works (at a deep technical level), which means an essential modern tool is basically a kind of magic to most of us - something that’s not quite predictable or within our control. We are slaves to them, not masters of them. The same is true for desktop computers and complex software like simulators (for most people, anyway, the fear is much lower among engineers, obviously). Nobody (especially men and, even more so, young men) wants to feel a lack of control, and one of the ways we (men) deal with this is to become pompous and arrogant and massively overestimate our competence. “This simulator wouldn’t be such c**p if I were in charge!” It’s just a coping strategy, that’s all. Not a very good one, but a natural and common one.

That doesn’t mean we should cut people much slack - there’s no room for antisocial behavior in today’s interdependent, high-density world - but it does help our own blood pressure if we can learn to recognize it for what it is: a (frequently habitual) emotional reaction, not a rational intention. In the absence of genuine and immediate threat, aggressiveness is usually a sign that people are uncomfortable with something but don’t really understand what or why. The best way to defuse it is to try to control our OWN responses and not get bent out of shape by it.

So, I think it’s good every time that someone here responds to a dumb newbie question by taking it seriously and patiently trying to help, as many valiantly do, or ignores the aggressive parts of a comment and focuses instead on the substance. It sets a good example. It says that it’s ok if things are confusing or annoying or exasperating. It says we’re all in it together and here to help each other. It shows people (many of whom may be teenagers) how grown-ups behave. Every time people behave kindly, it makes aggression and acting out less effective as a coping strategy. Making unwelcome people feel more welcome, despite them acting out, encourages them not to keep doing it. “Turn the other cheek”, “when they go low, we go high” and all that.

But if that doesn’t work after a couple of attempts, block them and forget them, because I know from bitter personal experience that it otherwise leads to co-dependence, where they NEED you to be kind and reasonable and patient, to save them from having to address their own behavioral problems, and if you’re not careful you’ll come to need them too, to validate your own personality!

What I keep reminding myself (after having counted to ten) is that we’re all just hairless chimpanzees. Even the hairy chimpanzees have reached the Stone Age now, making simple stone tools, and we’re really not that far in front of them. It’s just that our modern tools and systems leapt ahead much faster than we could keep up.

Anyway, I’m just offering a psychological perspective, for what its worth. If this answer ■■■■■■ anyone off for some reason, then I’m just going to assume it just proves my point. :slight_smile:

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Thank you for you contribution to the topic discussion.
:woman_shrugging:t2:

Awww… group hug! :no_good_man:t2: :no_good_woman:t2: (Edit: with 6 foot distancing)

But seriously, folks. Great post, and food for thought. We can all become better human beings. It just takes a bit of effort.

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Nice post with much food for thought. Hope you don’t assert copyright. In future, when someone makes a non-constructive complaining post and does not want help, I will reply with a copy of your post to see how that works.
:smile:
Now, good night from me and Glen Fiddich

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Haha! Be my guest. Took me a long time to become such an old stoic - really I want to beat their brains out with a stick…

Slainte!

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What do you mean I don’t get my smart phone? I watched the Original Star Trek! Everybody knows that Scottie gave up the secret for a Tricorder - along with transparent aluminum - when they paid a visit to San Francisco many years ago. I just cant figure out why it’s taken them so long to figure out how to make transparent aluminum.

:wink:

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:grinning: Ah, but Star Trek communicators were really just walkie-talkies (in Kirk’s day, anyway). Didn’t occur to anyone at the time that we’d one day be able to dial anybody anywhere. Let alone make Tiktok videos while they were waiting for the aliens. I understand FM radio and accelerometers and GPS and all that, but what the HECK is Tiktok?

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I haven’t seen much “flaming hatred” from anyone. And the non-constructive negativity I see comes mostly from people posting “How dare you!”-posts against people who are not happy with the game.

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I think it was Arthur.C.Clarke who once said “Any sufficiently advanced technology
is indistinguishable from magic”

It is I who once said that “people generally neither care nor understand how, for example, a
radio works. This remains true, right up until the point where the radio stop’s working”.

An interesting article.
Somewhat of a beacon in these 'ere forums.

Regards.

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IM Non relevant Observation, it often seems like folks can be very hateful, because it’s too easy to hide behind the keyboard. You’re not face to face with a live human being. The proverbial “Golden Rule” of past generations has gone by the wayside.

Still, I believe the majority of people are good at heart, and the silent majority hopefully still very much support Asobo’s genuine efforts. I know there’s no way I could do what they’ve achieved so far with my skill-set.

I hope they (Asobo) keep going. as I definitely tip my hat off to them. We’re getting there…albeit maybe a little slower than some desire.

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The best way to stop the negative comments is to simply make the sim work and perform.
Simple.

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In all seriousness: excellent and articulate post that touches on many points affecting all of us - worldwide - in this unprecedented time. Thank you for taking the time to compose your post, and to express so well your viewpoint. It is much appreciated.

This forum and the software we discuss - both flawed - has been a wonderful and constructive distraction from the difficult time we find ourselves in these days. This, and music. The Grateful Dead to be specific. (Great Halloween show last night!)

:smile:

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That’s true When the sim will work as expected ( I mean here like VaderPaw said in a previous post above) we will be all flying instead of logging in this forum. Personally I did not log here since the disastrous patch 1.9.3…

Hmm.
For me. I visit these forums BECAUSE I have been flying!
What could possibly [within reason] be better after a two or three or more hour long flight than the pleasure of ‘kicking back’ with a brew, hitting the forums and chewing the cud with my fellow simmers?

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