I thought we had none…
Some AI aircraft have real-world liveries, however, most do not.
At this time, you cannot fly using this livery through the base game, but some users have created downloadable liveries you can add to your community folder.
I don’t need livery for myself because I only fly biz jet . I’d really like to see airline liveries at airports. Of course it must be on their list already!
It is; however, Microsoft need to get licences from all the various airlines and as you can possibly imagine with the current global situation, airlines have bigger fish to fry.
For this, I would apply the same argument used when some users comment on Asobo development teams, and who does what, and what they should be working on, re. avionics vs. graphics.
I would imagine that the team involved with licensing of a given companies livery probably don’t have a lot to do with other aspects of the airline, and given the current climate probably don’t have an awful lot to do. I don’t now how much legal wrangling takes place behind the scenes to make this happen, though.
My gut feeling is if they don’t have the license now, they may never as the company just isn’t interested, and may have nothing to do with the pandemic at all.
This issue was covered during the January Dev Q and A, you can see the video here.
In the video, Jorg is asked about real models and liveries. He states that they have lots of stuff licenced in regard to aircraft, with things in the works for World Update 4 (France). He then goes onto say liveries has been harder to achieve:
What’s much tougher for us is the liveries. I can tell ya, just like last night, in the middle of last night, I got another airline saying ah you know “we’re busy we don’t have enough bandwidth, let’s talk about it next year”.
I don’t know what things are like in other airlines, but from what we’ve seen here things are brutal. Our national carrier has laid off one-third of its staff, from ground crew to executives.
With staff cuts like this, plus all of the other corporate-level issues that have popped up, it’s not hard to imagine that they wouldn’t have the bandwidth to focus their attention on issues that won’t generate revenue when in many ways they are fighting for their survival.
Anyway, time will tell. Hopefully, if nothing else we will see better AI models with the France world update if not some additional liveries to boot.
Currently only the UA generic model livery is the only one bundled with the sim.
Others you must download from mod sites.
I don’t understand why ASOBO need or want to waste time with licensing for liveries / aircraft models.
Sorry but reading this thread has led me to this upcoming rant about the state of AI traffic in the sim.
I’m assuming ASOBO’s interest in liveries / aircraft is attached to the “LIVE” online traffic component that is still getting it’s bugs worked out. In every sim I have owned (FS98 / FS 2004 / FSX / X-Plane11) , the community took care of creating viable AI traffic models and liveries. All ASOBO needs to do is provide the framework for this to take place + the ability to edit AI flight plans etc. The game has been out for 5+ months and there is still NO clear understanding of how the AI traffic system even operates (based on commentary in the forum).
People add 2 liveries to the community folder in the exact same format hoping to see them in the AI traffic - one livery gets used extensively while the other doesn’t get used at all - and very smart programmers have NO idea why.
There is no licensing agreement in MSFS2020 for all of the community created liveries for the A320 / 787 etc. yet we have dozens and dozens of them. I speak only for myself in saying all I would like is to see a bit of relevant traffic at airports so I’m not the ONLY plane around. I end up flying with others who spawn on runways then sit there for about 10 minutes getting their lives organized while others TRY to land and takeoff. (HINT: ASOBO - change the spawn point to the hold line for the runway NOT ON the runway) - but I digress. (I said I would rant - sorry)
This SHOULD not be so complicated that 5+ months in, we can’t make simple edits to have reasonable quality AI traffic to add a bit of atmosphere for those who want it.
Yeah, the only issue here is the transparency and the SDK documentation on how the AI traffic and their livery works.
That being said, I managed to get all my AI traffic livery working everytime using the liveries I downloaded. But I can see why it’s difficult to standardise this process for everyone.
According to an interview, I saw last year (possibly from Jorg), the reason this project (MSFS) exists is because technology that powers our computers, as well as things like AI and cloud computing has progressed to a point where Microsoft can finally build a true to life and realistic simulator.
We’ve seen this with Blackshark AI, the graphic fidelity of aircraft modals (graphics, not flight model), free world updates etc. As part of this Microsoft are aiming to include models and liveries into the base simulator.
Microsoft doesn’t want to get sued. An airline’s livery is part of their intellectual property (IP). In many if not most cases, they own their logos, their name, and the combination of their names, logos and colours.
I am definitely not a legal expert, so please note this is a lay opinion and is Not Legal Advice.
Copyright laws vary from jurisdiction, but generally speaking, you cannot profit from someone else’s IP without content. In the corporate world, content like this would usually require lots of paperwork and contracts.
Some airlines may want to fiercely limit the use of their IP, so groups distributing models/liveries without approval could face legal action (cease and desists, lawsuits, etc.)
Companies may also get upset if the theft of their IP results in a video that hurts their brand image. Imagine this hypothetical… Someone creates a livery for a real-world airline on one of their aircraft models. They publish it and someone uses that livery to make a YouTube video where they make a hoax video of a plane crashing into a famous building, or landmark. The video goes viral and suddenly, that airline could have a real PR problem, one that may cause them to seek compensation.
While a freeware developer is less likely to face legal action, both freeware and payware developers could. It is for this reason MS have to be careful.
They can limit the livery use to live traffic AIs only, so the scenario you described will never happen. If the liveries are used properly airlines can get some public exposure which they would pay for doing that. Even airlines have a bigger fish to fry, I don’t think this matter would go the top decision circle. If Asobo prioritized it, it could move along much faster. I used to have a pay ware called Ultimate Traffic, there were all the airlines liveries for their AI traffic…
But how can you be sure that they will be used “properly”. Sure, you can claim that you’re using it properly. But your definition of using it properly may not be the same as the IP owner’s definition of what it means to have their brand image used properly.
Uncontrolled or unlicensed exposure is always bad, even if it’s a positive exposure, because the IP holder cannot be certain on what would happen if things go in ways that they don’t anticipate it. Licensing is important, whether you like it or not. Even if they can limit the use of livery to live AI traffic only, that’s still needs permission from the IP holder to be able to use their brand image for that purpose.
This means, Microsoft may need to send them the codes for how the AI traffic behaves, what would happen if certain things happen, and they need to absolutely convince the IP holders that their brand image will be used appropriately, and they could also give them a set of demands themselves. That they would only allow Microsoft to use their image if they have their AI traffic to do certain things, etc etc. They may even have a specific clause saying that they only approve to have their liveries to work for the Asobo’s default AI traffic. If you install any community mod that changes or replaces these behaviour, it’s well within their rights to have their livery disabled until you remove that mod.
There’s a lot of negotiations and agreements between both parties that needs to be made in order for their actual liveries to be officially licensed to Microsoft for its use. Saying “Dude, Trust me” is not a valid process for a legally binding agreement to ensure that your brand will not be misused in anyway.
Then that payware would already have their airline liveries licensed from whichever airlines it has.
Does anyone know - DID ultimate traffic (and other pay programs like it) get permission from every airline in the program & every aircraft manufacturer?
I understand WHY permission is needed before ASOBO can proceed - my point is that much of the freeware AI traffic add-ons of the past were quite sufficient, thorough and accurate - rendering ASOBO’s effort superfluous.
My point is: MSFS20 wasn’t developed yesterday, this project has been worked on for years, I just don’t get why they didn’t contact the airlines earlier knowing that this had to be done… the pandemic just started a year ago.
This topic was automatically closed 30 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.