Same, kinda frustrating as I’ve got a 49" 4K TV at monitor distance, TrackIR, finally got my 3080 to go from 35fps to 50ish on ultra, and a few days later VR came out… And now I’m back to 35fps but will still probably never fly in 2D again 
3 Likes
With my trackir I feel the exact same way. ever tried it on a 40 inch 4k monitor ?
1 Like
49 for me, but not even close. Ever tried VR? 
7 Likes
Until you turn 180 deg around to take a nap in the passenger seats, or you try flicki.ng the Dome Light switch overhead 
PS: is “f l i c k i n” a censored word? Is that the famous ‘F’ word 
, what about bloody?
PS2: is it a bloody or a flicki.ng forum rule? (I’ll stop there… 
)
PS3: one last, how could I recommend playing this nice outdoor game:
Flickin’ Chicken
https://funtasticlearningtoys.com/products/flickin-chicken/
LOL!
2 Likes
There is absolutely no comparison to VR and track IR. Used both and nothing can compare to experience VR gives you…
1 Like
Actually to get an idea how different VR is, may I suggest you watch these cool videos*:
[MegaThread] FS2020 Room Scale Adventure!
*if you want to shot your own little story and share, please do!
1 Like
IFR is better in VR also, but MSFS has no controller support, and you need a very expensive headset for the resolution, but even IFR is better in VR. Everything is. why?
Because you reach out for the real controllers. You really feel like you are in the cockpit, and you gain muscle memory for all the controls, etc. I base this on IFR suddenly being FUN in Xplane VR, after a total chore otherwise. My headset (Samsung Odyssey 2) is just barely good enough to read everything on the screens, etc.
I use moveVR to bring youtuve videos into the sim so I can watch tutorials while learning. Once MSFS supports controllers and fixes their instruments you will see what I mean!!
I was referencing actual IFR procedural training that translates into real world flying proficiency. You would not be able to do that and reference an EFB without lifting up your headset.
Not to water down your gaming experience, but whatever muscle memory you’re getting moving the controllers around will not carry over to an actual airplane. Practicing maneuvers in the game might help you with the procedure of executing a maneuver, but without the feel of the airplane it’s little value to stick and rudder skills.
1 Like
Wait until you try IFR with your in-VR space notepad and the full 3D controllers, like is possible in x-plane VR. which is the IFR VR experience I am referring to in particular. MSFS VR has a good year of catch up to do.
The other reason it is better than mouse\kb is that it is the ‘real hardware’. You do not seem to have actually used VR at all?
I am not trying to claim it is better because it is more “immersive” or something subjective like that. It is because it puts you IN THE COCKPIT, spatially and when the controllers work, it really is like being in a constrained space. For me, and I admit I am a gamer, for sure. Not some serious simmer even. Just mostly into the aviation technology and the game lets me explore it. So that said, I never found IFR stuff ‘fun enough’ to slog through learning. Now in VR I find that it is a great experience to pull up videos on the procedures, and learn to do them in the cockpit. It forces out all distractions!
It is somewhere between a learning style thing and a ‘access to an airplane’ thing. Really I am just trying to clarify what I like about the VR experience not argue with you about what is better anymore.
Do you actually believe this? Having gone from simulators to “real life” for RC helicopters (much more challenging to fly than RC drones) I simply doubt what you are saying is likely to be true. If it was no one would train on simulators ever.
At any rate I will find out soon because I am going to start PP lessons in spring. I will report back even though I already know that is a subjective call and I have seen many pilots already who disagree with you, and many others that agree.
Any chance of the you tube link ?
"I was referencing actual IFR procedural training that translates into real world flying proficiency. You would not be able to do that and reference an EFB without lifting up your headset.
Not to water down your gaming experience, but whatever muscle memory you’re getting moving the controllers around will not carry over to an actual airplane. Practicing maneuvers in the game might help you with the procedure of executing a maneuver, but without the feel of the airplane it’s little value to stick and rudder skills."
Me, my instructor and countless Airforce’ around the world would disagree with you.
https://www.rustourismnews.com/2020/10/29/klm-introducing-virtual-reality-training-for-pilots/
I could go on but its easier for you to google and catch up yourself.
1 Like
I’d like to add that TrackIR has been invaluable to my sim experience spanning FSX, P3d, Xplane11 and now MSFS. As a real world pilot that practiced on the sim, head tracking allows you the freedom of natural movement for reference to outside the aircraft, e.g., other traffic, positioning for circuits, viewing switches and cockpit information (particularly if obscured by other objects, e.g., Yokes and levers.
I’ll continue to use it when flying on a monitor and will still use this mode of flying as it has some benefits if you have a home cockpit with switch panels or other avionics. Not to mention the high graphics views on a monitor with good quality computing power.
Now to VR. I purchased the Oculus Rift CV1 about 2 - 3 years ago. I have now used it on FSX (FlyInside), P3d (Native and FlyInside) and Xplane 11. Xplane 11 was the clear winner when the whole design of the user interface is considered over the other sims. All the above sims required a lot of work to produce good visuals for VFR flying and storage space was always a deterrent for not achieving the best result.
I was hesitant about how MSFS would implement VR and with all the other teething issues with the sim, didn’t hold out much hope for a satisfactory experence. However, I was soon to be surprised. With my CV1 from the outset, I was pleasantly surprised by the experience and the visuals were (to me) clearer and richer in colour than Xplane11 and the weather system is virtually a physics lab in your sim, with all the necessary lighting effects. Of course the Orbx scenery (not True Earth) I used in FSX and P3d couldn’t compare to what is available out of the box with MSFS.
VR clearly allowed me to see so much detail in the CV1 - I was shocked. Since release, several tips from the community have me flying smoothly with High and Ultra settings in VR. I might add, I have a old 4 core mid ranged system I7 6700 (not overclocked), GTX 2080ti and 32 gig RAM.
I don’t doubt that the HP G2 and many of the newer headsets provide clearer displays than my CV1 but I’m so happy with the VR experience I have that I’m not really interested in paying a grand for a G2 and spending 5 grand on a high end gaming system to match performance.
Today in the CJ4 (latest mod), I flew a number of IFR flights and could clearly read and work with all the cockpit information and buttons etc. This was a challenge for me in Xplane, particularly in the larger jets.
So in closing, VR is Fantastic and “as real as it gets” has never seemed closer. It should be noted that you don’t need the greatest hardware, headset and computer to be able to enjoy it. I’m sure the team at Asobo will add more performance improvements over time so it will only be better as time passes.
2 Likes
Yeah, but no.
The benefit of VR is the immersion, which Track IR cannot provide. In VR it feels you are INSIDE the plane, everything is in 3d, you feel as if the cockpit was really there, like you can touch it, it is so much more than being able to freely move your head.
Even if you watch a VR180º video on youtube, which does not allow to move your head around, you can definetely feel you are inside the plane, it feels real, it tricks your brain so well it is sometimes difficult to tell the difference (I left my VR controllers on the top of the cockpit and they fell to the floor since I forgot there is no cockpit in real life for example).
Resolution and needing a beefy PC are the only two issues, resolution is getting better and better, the G2 is an amazing piece of hardware, but you will still need a very good PC to run VR, so if you cannot afford it you will have to go 2d.
In a nutshell, no, TrackIR has nothing to do with VR, it is not even comparable imo, it just provides you with the ability of moving your head without using a mouse and that is eons away from the VR experience.
5 Likes
You, your instructor, and the countless Airforces around the world are using VR for IFR Procedural training? How about stick and rudder skills?
VR can add value to training, just not in those two aspects. Those articles did nothing to state otherwise. I tell you what, go ask your instructor if he would ever sign off on a pilot to solo if all the trained on was MSFS/XP11/P3D and a VR headset.
You might be pushing the reasoning a little too far, because nothing in these articles is ever stating VR would be the sole mean of learning flying. Instead, it is a complement which is allowing reducing the number of hours in a real aircraft, and this is confirming the value there is in such form of training. Besides, by the time the technology will be so acute so as to train 100% with VR only, aircraft won’t need any pilots either because the same level of technology will warrant fully 100% automated flights…
3 Likes
Obviously that was the point as it’s a ridiculous statement.
Yet we are talking about IFR, which you also seemed to indicate is best done in 2D on a computer? How is stick and rudder skills relevant in your estimate?
You are arguing a strawman. Literally no one was making that argument except in your imagination.