Hyper-Threading On, CTD

Bug Reporting Hub Crashes (CTDs)
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ISSUE DESCRIPTION

Description of the issue:

There are frequent CTDs with an i9-14900K and Hyper-Threading (HT) On. No issues with HT Off.

[PC Only] Did you remove all your community mods/add-ons? If yes, are you still experiencing the issue?

N/A. I have no community mods/add-ons.

FREQUENCY OF ISSUE

How often does this occur for you (Example: Just once, every time on sim load, intermittently)?

Frequently during Free Flight. It has occurred several times while the Free Flight scenario was being loaded, shortly after the aircraft appears on the taxiway at the departure airport.

REPRODUCTION STEPS

Please list clear steps you took in order to help our test team reproduce the same issue:

  1. Leave HT On in BIOS and boot to Windows.
  2. Launch MSFS 2024.
  3. Select Free Flight, any aircraft, any airport, any weather conditions.
  4. Attempt to complete a flight.
  5. Shut down the computer and restart. Enter the BIOS and turn HT Off. Repeat steps 2-4 above.

What peripherals are you using, if relevant:

I don’t know that the peripherals are relevant since the CTDs occur whether my peripherals are plugged in or not. That said, I’m using a Honeycomb Alpha yoke, Honeycomb Bravo throttle quadrant, and TPR: Thrustmaster Pendular Rudder.

[PC Only] Are you using Developer Mode or have you made any changes to it?

I’m not using Developer Mode and have made no changes to the programming of the application.

[PC Only] Many issues may be due to an outdated graphics card. Please state your Graphics Card Driver Manufacturer (NVIDIA, Intel, AMD) and Version:

nVidia RTX 3090, currently on the latest nVidia driver.

[PC Only] What other relevant PC specs can you share?

Gigabyte Aorus Master X Z790 motherboard
Intel i9-14900K processor @ stock clocks and power settings
Corsair H170i AiO
G.Skill 64 gigs DDR5 7200 RAM
EVGA RTX 3090 GPU
Windows 11 24H2, OS Build 26100.2605

[END OF FIRST USER REPORT]

:loudspeaker: For anyone who wants to contribute on this issue, Click on the button below to use this template:

Do you have the same issue if you follow the OP’s steps to reproduce it?
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Provide extra information to complete the original description of the issue:
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With HT enabled CPU requires higher voltage, which creates a problem for motherboards designed for Intel 13th and 14th generation CPUs due to known issues with voltage spikes. These Vcore spikes are not detected by monitoring software, such as HWinfo. These voltage spikes could have damaged your CPU - Intel is accepting warranty claims for such cases.

Additionally, your motherboard manufacturer only released a BIOS update addressing this issue in October. Until then, your CPU was operating with significantly elevated voltage, which could have caused damage and will also lead to faster degradation in the future. Other motherboard manufacturers implemented fixes earlier - for instance, MSI released their update as early as April-June.

You didn’t mention your BIOS version number.

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@TenPatrol, I’m well aware of the issues with 13th and 14th gen processors and the required BIOS updates with their associated microcode updates. I’m currently running the latest Gigabyte BIOS for my motherboard and have consistently applied updates to the BIOS ever since I bought the motherboard. The current BIOS version, F9b, was installed as soon as it was released. This includes Intel microcode 0x12B, which also encompasses 0x125 and 0x129.

Again, however, BIOS updates have been regularly applied as they were released so both of the previous microcode updates were applied in June and August respectively.

Finally, I have done extensive testing of my CPU and verified that it functions normally with HT On. Furthermore, the reported issue is for MSFS 2024 only. I have NO issues with HT On when using MSFS 2020.

Bottom line, this is not related to voltage spikes with my processor (there are none) but rather an issue with the coding of MSFS 2024. The MSFS team has already identified an issue with processors that have more than 32 cores/threads. My best guess is that despite the fact that my processor has 24 cores and 32 threads with HT On, the issue with processors having more than 32 threads may also be causing an issue with processors that have 32 threads with HT On.

1 Like
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Thank you for providing information about your BIOS.
It would also be beneficial to run tests by adjusting the power limit settings in the BIOS - specifically setting it to “unlimited.” Additionally, it’s worth looking into the C-states, IA CEP,CLL, LLC settings… For example, increasing CLL and LLC can help make the CPU more stable with Hyper-Threading enabled.

You should also test MSFS with virtualization disabled in both the BIOS and Windows settings

These tests can provide valuable feedback for the MSFS 2024 developers.

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@TenPatrol

Power Limit settings in the BIOS are enforcing the stock Intel power settings for my processor, namely PL1-253W, PL2-253W, PL4-380W. “Unlimited” has not been selected and no changes to the stock P-core and E-core clocks have been made. While I have experimented with using the “Unlimited” setting in the BIOS, that setting tends to significantly increase CPU temps under load and thus contribute to instability.

C-states, IA CEP, CLL, and LLC settings are at the Intel defaults. I have experimented with adjusting CLL and LLC over the summer with a net result of the processor running hotter under load with no improvement in performance or stability. Extensive testing has demonstrated that my system is perfectly stable with the Intel stock power settings being enforced.

Virtualization is already disabled by default in both the BIOS and in Windows, so that’s not a factor.

I appreciate you helping me provide the detail the devs may need, but again I think we’re grasping at straws here. This is only an issue with MSFS 2024 and no other app that I run, including MSFS 2020.

EDIT: I should have also noted my chosen cooling solution. I’ve added that to my specs in the OP. It is more than sufficient to keep the CPU at reasonable temps under load with stock clocks and even with a mild OC.

2025-01-02 EDIT: There seems to be some improvement when HT is On (with far fewer, but not ZERO CTDs) with the Windows Power Plan set to “High Performance.”

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Thank you for sharing how the power plan has impacted the performance of MSFS 2024. Your insights are greatly appreciated!

I mentioned on the forum a long time ago that for playing demanding games, High Performance or Ultimate Performance power plan is the best and most recommended option.
I also recommended disabling Fast Startup and Hibernate for optimal performance.

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Couldn’t agree more on disabling Fast Startup and Hibernate. I’ll add a couple more that are likely to rankle some members:

  1. Always minimize the number of tasks you have running in the background when playing graphics intensive games, especially tasks that include game overlays, recording, streaming, browsing, etc. Every task that’s running in the background depletes resources from your game.

  2. When installing an updated graphics driver, always disable GPU software like MSI Afterburner or Precision X before installing the new driver. And always use the “Clean” install option to ensure the updated graphics driver is not conflicting with/relying on old remnants of the previous driver.

  3. Never “Alt-Tab” out of and back into graphics intensive games. Alt-Tab is a decades old Windows feature that was meant for switching between 2D desktop applications and not 3D games. The use of Alt-Tab in gaming breaks the connection between the game and your GPU, creating significant instability when you attempt to reconnect using Alt-Tab to return to the game.

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I can see you follow the same principle as I do: the fewer background processes, the better games run. It’s such an old-school approach but it really works, doesn’t it?
Nowadays, motherboard manufacturers add so much unnecessary software and flashy features and unfortunately, most gamers think they actually need them. Manufacturers have even taken it a step further by embedding software into the BIOS that gets installed on our PCs. It’s frustrating how far this trend has gone.

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Agreed. I’ve been interested in, playing with, building, and programming computers since I was in grade school in the 1960’s. Yeah, you read that right. My first personal PC was an IBM 286 running on DOS with a clock speed of 10 Mhz, 1 MB of RAM, and a 10 MB HD. Talk about limited resources.

While the hardware has come a very long way since my first PC in the early 1980’s, one principle has remained constant–Software developers will always be able to develop resource intensive applications that will exceed your hardware’s ability to handle them.

We have hardware now that has Gigabytes and Terabytes of capacity and Ghz of speed. But run a graphics intensive app like MSFS 2024 at 4K or higher with all the eye candy turned up to Ultra? You’ll struggle to get 30 FPS with no background apps running. Play that same game with screen overlays, or while capturing, or while streaming to Discord, and your game will struggle to even load.

I learned the KISS principle as a kid in the 1960’s and it is still just as applicable today.