I refunded msfs2024-aviator edition after 25hrs of playing on Steam

[taylorswift8111]

Kind enough, Steam refunded without questioning even though the limit is 2hrs.

This post is going to be very personal towards Jorg and Sebastian and why i feel scammed.
I never experienced major problem with 2020, in fact in my whole few years carrier in msfs2020 I experienced at most 5 CTDs even though I change the computer specs every year and I always have the top notch components.

But I watched every dev stream always and couldn’t wait for msfs2024 when Jorg and Sebastian were talking how great the sim is, how rich it is, how improved it is. Seriously, you should be ashamed for releasing the game in that state.

This all turned all into lies as soon as I installed the 2024. Surely, the server capacity was driving crazy and for 2 days I couldn’t even load the sim but I was patient.

On the 3rd and 4th day I finally got the change to test this sim just to discover how extremely buggy it is. I can’t even remember if I ever experienced this buggy game ever (I think Cyberpunk 2077 was the one with hell of a bugs but compared to this, it was bug free).

Anyway, starting with UI and their nonsense, lack of many features that were promised on the day one and huge amount of bugs in literally everywhere. There is no interface area in this game without bugs.

The moment I decided for a refund was when I spend hours to bind my peripherals (binding is extremely buggy) just to discover that my bindings are gone or they do not work with other stock planes, so you have to rebind. Super frustrating because it’s not easy task with two joysticks, yoke, throttles and rudders.

So, I feel very scammed by Jorg and Sebastian because the sim is not what was described many times on the dev streams.

2020 has matured enough and it put the bar quite high, so for 2024 I think was very challenging to jump over that bar.

2020 will receive (as promised) at some point upgraded textures, so it will be even more beautiful.

If you are on Steam and thinking about refunding but you hit 2hrs limit, contact steam, tell how buggy it is and they will probably refund as they did to me.

[Shark4538]

Heya,

I really can understand your frustration. The simulator is in a maximal Beta state. But it has potential. You can clearly see that.

Because of msfs2020 I spent a lot of money into my hardware. I build up a motion rig and brought many addons for 2020.

Although I am frustrated as well, I stay with my Aviator edition, because the last 4 years have proofed that the developers are continuously working on the simulator.

We all want a multithread capable engine and so on and so far. So we got a new simulator.
We all want some progress.

To go new ways is naturally unknown territory, which leads often to some “new” experiences.

Get me right. I don´t want to find excuses for that catastrophic release. But after 4 days we finally see some progress.

For me personally it is a lottery to get into the sim. Very often I stuck at 63% loading world data.

That´s for sure because I am not able to disable my Marketplace addons in 2024 and they are mostly synchronized now.

That hits me as hard as it hits you. I am really upset because of that.

I personally will stay with my purchase, because Asobo / MS is a business company. If we all would get out of 2024, there will be no progress any more.

For them it is beside some enthusiasm business of course. If they are not successful, our flight simulation community will probably get no progress and we would be back into the days before 2020 release.

[Marklar666]

@undefinedman369

Steam refunded without questioning even though the limit is 2hrs

The 2h limit is only for automatic refunds. Over 2h and your request needs to be approved by someone from customer service. If there is a valid reason, there is no time limit for refunds on Steam.

[Ianrivsmith]

@undefinedman369

2020 will receive (as promised) at some point upgraded textures,

You actually believe that?

[FPVSteve]

Blame the beancounters at Microsoft - I highly doubt Jorg and Seb wanted to release on this arbitrary 19th November date but were pushed into doing so ready for the christmas period.

Having said that … “under promise and over deliver” is a thing. They got that bit reversed!

I just think their hands are tied. For me, it’s not even that the sim is struggling, it’s the direction it’s taking that I have a problem with - I no longer think a flight simulator is the priority, a flight game in a beautiful world seems to be the way we’re heading.

[CraigRiga]

It should’ve been stated very clearly before release that this game is in a State Of Beta, I keep hearing them say they are open with communication but they failed here in a big way.

It’s clear from the number of bugs we should’ve been pre warned as to what we were buying, but they wanted our money so kept shamelessly quiet on how buggy this Sim is.

I too have refunded, it’s one of the poorest releases in gaming history and that’s not a good group to be in.

[Ianrivsmith]

@FPVSteve

with - I no longer think a flight simulator is the priority, a flight game in a beautiful world seems to be the way we’re heading.

I agree and think this sums it up. I loaded my favourite plane from 2020, the default CJ4. My G*d what has happened?! The cockpit textures are awful, it’s like a plastic toy!

[hhelikopter4891]

I’m like this on day 4. Unplayable. Personally, I was really looking forward to it. I browsed the internet every day to see if I could find new information before the release. In my opinion, the entire community was scammed. I’m very sad and disappointed. Server problems have been present in the MSFS 2020 simulator for several years. Microsoft should have prepared twice as many servers for MSFS 2024. What did they think would solve itself?

[gabster1501]

Wasn’t there an alpha test with a lot of users?

I hoped they would focus on the core features of 2020 but they introduced so many new features and aircraft at the same time - how will they ever fix the Bugs? May be they should have released this step by step. Reducing complexity. I would have rebought just for a new working AI ATC.

What frustrates me is that they changed so many things like the UI, Keybindings…the Copilot is now visible but at the same time unable to fly the aircraft or handle checklists. Creating a Sim and Game at the same time on multiple platforms is complex, and the risk is high to fail in both areas due to a lack of depth and unfinished ideas. I get that.

I am sure MS came back to Flight Simulation because they found out that the customer lifetime value of a simmer can be extremely high, staying for decades. Lets hope they dont forget about the Spirit of Aviation and we users dont forget that Aviation has always been an area of pioneers with a lot of throwbacks. I am ready to go that way, but their Marketing and parts of the product development would need a major change.

[gabster1501]

True. It’s an area of pioneers with a lot of throwbacks. Still I think their Marketing should change and cover that. We are paying for the progress, not for a finished game and thats what keeps us going. But guess thats the view of a simmer being part of the Sim for decades. As a Gamer you might not understand that. It would be helpful to know what works and what is in alpha/beta and to reduce complexity.

[gabster1501]

Not sure I want to agree on that. The new EFB and flight planner is not for gamers at all. I do believe MS has to deliver to both target groups to get going. And I guess thats creating an extreme complexity and is the reason we see so much hate and love at the same time.

[BegottenPoet228]

@gabster1501

Wasn’t there an alpha test with a lot of users?

This is what’s puzzling me the most.

Granted, the Alpha was understood to be a partial release, intended to test telemetry, and not the overall state of the sim. Also, we know why the Day 1 release was so…how can I put this nicely…horrible. They severely underestimated the server capacity required. But the latter issue seems to be getting worked out (or at least worked on.) I think our friends in Australia are still struggling, though.

What puzzles me is how little the Alpha test results seemed to offer. I don’t recall anyone commenting on how poor the Controls UI is designed, or how CTD’s seem to be rampant for many, or so many of the other issues that have been reported by those who have purchased the product.

I think many of us can agree that this product needed an extensive pre-release Beta test period. I’m not one of the bashers, but I will stand firm in my belief that FS2024 was released WAY too early in its development cycle.

The question is, who’s going to lose their jobs after this? Not the accountants who I agree were probably behind the decision to go live on November 19th.

At the moment it’s a sad state of affairs all around. I have faith that the new sim will be a joy to play - eventually. I really hope I’m not being naive.

For the record, I’m very happy with the sim that FS2020 became. It took years to get there, and it’s not perfect. But it’s good in so many ways. I’m hopeful that FS2024 will surpass it in every way.

[gabster1501]

@BegottenPoet228

At the moment it’s a sad state of affairs all around. I have faith that the new sim will be a joy to play - eventually. I really hope I’m not being naive.

Well I refunded on day 1 and rebought on day 2. My hope is not dying as it is kinda childhood dream to get up in the air. And yes I must be naive - I already know ATC made no progress and Copilot lost my favorite features. Still I hope.

I think there is not only gamers and simmers, there is endless subgroups. Each gamer and each simmer might have a very own idea on how to use the sim and its features. I loved the Copilot handling checklists - most Users never discovered that feature in 2020 so it was removed. And together with the different platforms and hardware introducing so many new features at the same time might never get you out of alpha.

[BegottenPoet228]

@gabster1501

I already know ATC made no progress and Copilot lost my favorite features. Still I hope.

In my opinion, poorly sorted ATC has been the #1 complaint of FS2020. I don’t understand why it’s not close to 100% in FS2024.

• There are plenty of people who understand how it should work. Why were they not hired?

• Alternatively, why didn’t Microsoft hire (or buy) the 3rd party companies who are providing quality ATC services in FS2020?

• AI is becoming a major force. Is it not being integrated into the sim?

I’d give my opinion as to why, but it has to do with how I feel that core simmers are being abandoned in favor of casual simmers who couldn’t care less about SID’s and STAR’s and traffic management accuracy - and I’ve been bashed enough for that opinion.

As for the Copilot. I haven’t been able to get in the air yet (due to hardware issues.) If Copilot assistance is indeed gone, I’ll be a sad panda.

[Ianrivsmith]

@BegottenPoet228

In my opinion, poorly sorted ATC has been the #1 complaint of FS2020. I don’t understand why it’s not close to 100% in FS2024.

Because they don’t allocate any resources to it. At least that is how it looks. They just waffle like politicians in the dev Q&A when asked about it. Same with AI. Wasn’t someone supposed to be brought in to help sort AI, from AIG group (I could be wrong)?

AI = broken
ATC = broken

Build your own character (lack of European Caucasian may I add) = perfect.

Priorities…

[gabster1501]

It is confirmed that the auto flight ability of the copilot has gone. Also the auto validation and reading of the checklists. Handling Communication is still there!

For ATC - I read that before ATC can work we need proper flight planning. What makes sense, and a new Flight Planner was just integrated. The sim needs to know the flightplan, not only the aircraft, what was the case when importing from simbrief into the aircraft.

10 years from now we might have an AI Copilot or AI Teacher. Give them time

[gabster1501]

@Ianrivsmith

Priorities…

Yeah sometimes it feels like they integrate what 3rd party brings to the table or what they can easily get from libraries (wildlife, ships, guess even the avatars). And therefore even dumping what was already in a good state.

[GhostlyFrend]

@BegottenPoet228

I don’t recall anyone commenting on how poor the Controls UI is designed,

In did, actually, but, wrongly, assumed that this was an alpha iteration of that functionality.

[BegottenPoet228]

It really does need to be fixed. I can see the potential for those who map everything in-sim.

I use SPAD, and aside from the keyboad/mouse, all my FS2020 sim profiles are blank. At first glance I’m having a hard time figuring out how to create and use a blank profile for each peripheral. It should be as easy as it was in FS2020.

Yet another example of why FS2024 needed a long Beta trial starting on Nov. 19th.

[Maelmoor]

To me MSFS 2024 is everything they promised and a bit more, for me it’s already superior to 2020 and I know bugs and issues will be solved.

2024 is a much more complete sim than 2020 was when launched, but people tend to forget quickly. But of course each to their own and 2020 is still there for those who want it.