Is MSFS what you expected?

It depends on what you based you’re expectations on i think.

If i did not follow the initial press releases, trailers and development videos and bought the sim on release, then it’s definately way more then i could imagine or expect.

But since i did all those things and also participated in the alpha builds, i honestly have to say it’s dissapointing.

Everything was told to be better then how it was at release. Alpha was great, and because it was still alpha my expectations where that final release was even better.

Now it seems that even lot’s of bugs from alpha arent even fixed yet. More bugs have arrived. And many graphical feauters where downgraded (ignoring the people here who can’t use their eyes)

It further lowers my satisfaction when i hear asobo is somewhat completely ignoring those things or saying it’s just not true. Besides that bug fixing is going terribly slow. Also the promised features that are lacking since the very beginning are still not present (then i talk basic stuff like replay camera, effects etc.) also annoys me.

So it’s not what i expected. My expectations where only as high as the hype was created by themselves though. And maybe these features will eventually be in the sim. But i definately didn’t expect it to be more then a year later.

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Flight Simulator 10. The one before MSFS, 15 years ago.

The “live traffic” is a little bit disappointing especially after you have seen how a 3rd party mod like PSXT can inject real live traffic into the game.

if Asobo insists of using their own flight model then it will be difficult, at least for the very small part of the community who want decent aircrafts. i do not see Asobo willing to improve currently.

Played Microsoft Flight Sims from the very first edition and yes this is the best version with the greatest potential.
BUT
Each edition was not ready at launch and required fixing in the form, as today of patches, but they came a lot earlier and fixed core problems, instead of offering updates, they came later.
My own personal dislikes,

  1. Long load times with no official word as to why, other than to “blame” your community folder. It should not take nearly a minute to check for updates when you start.
  2. Updates. Put them in one place and download everything at once, No way should you have to update an app in Windows, then download an update as the game starts, then go to the content manager to download more content, we stopped doing that years ago.
  3. Game size. Yes it is complex, but there are also other complex games that do not want to take over your house. This continues, were going to need a 1TB SSD just for MSFS!
  4. Asobo’s seeming reluctance to allow full third party development aircraft. By now we should have been seeing complex payware aircraft as we have in every other version of MSFS. Something is holding that up, my guess is Asobo’s flight modelling is the sticking point. That would be ok but they seem more interested in pushing out world updates and general fixes, rather than fixing or updating any included aircraft which were clearly not ready at the start. The A320 and B787 are two examples.
  5. The weird choice of menu controls, MSFS had this down to pat, why Asobo were allowed to change it, especially the camera control system is beyond me.
  6. No replay Function, seriously?

Yes i would still have bought it because it brings enough new content to be playable, but even the Asobo defend at all cost’s club have to admit the game has some issues.

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Have you ever flown MSFS before? If you had, you’d know the airliners are always dumbed down, and I actually think that’s a good thing, because they’re more accessible to the younger crowd, and we need their money!

As far as flight characteristics go, when was the last time you flew a 747? If you’ve never done it, how do you propose to know?

I’ve been pretty satisfied with MSFS, but one thing I keep telling people is that I’d rather have it in my hands now, no matter how buggy it may be (although I suppose there IS a line, but it hasn’t been crossed), than have only YouTube videos to watch. That’s almost the ultimate tease.

Anyhoo, have a happy Friday!

@Chaezaa. don’t forget that RL traffic itself is down like 80% or so due to our friendly neighborhood bug. I’m not saying they’re not missing stuff, but the skies are naturally sparse as it is.

That’s due to the Microsoft Store. Either we have to download updates from multiple sources, or all the game files get restricted access, like the launcher. Unfortunately, Steam users have to suffer along with us.

I agree and disagree… The closed nature of the environment is also a sore point for me too. But the developers you’re probably referring to have traditionally needed a long time to bring products to market, even when the platform isn’t changing on a monthly basis. Some of them say they are confident they will release their products soon-ish, some have said they have bypassed the flight model, which is something Asobo doesn’t want developers doing… So… it’s certainly making things difficult for developers, but i don’t think we would have had releases from A2A, PMDG, etc had the sim been more open towards developers.

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Which version of MSFS did you fly before? The Airliners were not dumbed down, and were enhanced by full third development access.
To many games these days are going down the road of early access and we know its bugged but hey you can play it, and to many players are going yup happy to join your testing team and pay you for doing so.

If you compare the traffic from FlightAware on their website with the live traffic in MSFS (which is supposed to be from FlightAware) than you will see a massive difference. Asobo is forced to limit the traffic because their ATC and airport system couldn’t handle full traffic.

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A new version of flight sim was for me unexpected. But I have to say its definitely not what I expected.
Scenery is great (mostly), but almost everything else is for me, way below par. I would expect for a new version of a long running title, it would have more features and improved features that were in the previous versions. In some respects its almost a step back from FSX:
-ATC is buggy
-AI is useless
-Its generally unstable (way too many CTD issues)
-Can’t even save a flight properly
-World Map is a joke, virtually no airport info, no detailed map view (yet)
-Weather engine can’t simulate fog (I mean come on, its 2021 not 2001)

I could go on for days.
Do I enjoy playing it, YES. Do I swear and curse at it, YES (a lot)
Do I love it… maybe :smirk:

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The whole on line system like FR24 in the real world, is nowhere near live. I am still trying to figure out how far the ATIS is actually out of date. You call the any controller after getting the ATIS and i am no longer surprised as she/he gives you a completely different version of the weather, and pressure settings.

Give them a chance eh! They are barely a year into it.
I for one would prefer all the functionality etc to remain an integrated part of the sim.
I really don’t want to go back to the bad old days of the Orbx shuffle.

Regards.

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Every one since version 3, so I’ve been around the block a few times. Airliners have always been dumbed down, at first because there wasn’t enough compute power to avoid it, and eventually to enhance revenues and protect those very same very important third parties. Which I thought I mentioned, and meant to in any case.

And like I said, I think it’s a good thing, for multiple reasons. Younger kids and teens want to just jump in, and use an XBox controller to “fly” a 747 underneath the Golden Gate bridge. Which is one reason I think some of those bridges will be fixed by XBox release, or at least hope they will be. And, at the risk of being repetitive, those revenues are a very good thing, as they keep things well funded for those 10 years we’ve been promised.

Then can you imagine how big a problem it might be if we didn’t have nearly empty skies to begin with? I flew a flight a few weeks ago where I could have gotten from Charlotte to South Carolina just by jumping from plane to plane (metaphorically speaking, anyway), so when they get it right, they get it very right. To the point that we might have to start turning down settings, though my rig handled that situation just fine, except for all the ■■■■ go arounds.

All the flight Sims available (P3D, X-Plane and MSFS2020) have got issues, but P3D and X-Plane cannot compare graphically to MSFS2020 which to me is an absolute pleasure…near enough as real world is MSFS2020. I do not think MSFS2020 has done that badly considering it has only been available to us mortals for 10 months. There have also been some really bad updates and changes made which have really p$%s&d me off but it is still usable for me at least…as a matter of fact VERY Usable for me and has kept me occupied. Yes it is better than I expected!
:grin:

But there’s a difference. Every single flight sim up to now has been a developer playground. XPlane is designed with that in mind. FSX was adapted to that. P3D hasn’t made any significant improvements to default airplanes and the default flight model in ages because they are relying on developers. But with FS2020 developers are being given a back seat. They are no longer expected to be the driving force behind the sim evolving. So unlike previous simulators, Asobo aims for the default airplanes to be as real as possible.

Oh! I was joking.
The fact that I EXPECTED more of MSFS does not invalidate that it is the best.

To begin with, most of your posts read as though you have been sitting in on the planning meetings with the MSFS executives. Everything you have stated is conjecture. Much of what you are stating as fact is in fact contrary to what the team has been saying since day one.

Lets start with third party add on software. From day one, Asobo/Microsoft has stated that there would be no effort put forth to create fully operational “study level” default aircraft. This was done as a conscious effort to leave that market to the aftermarket developers.

A/M also stated that they believed that those 3rd parties were the future of the genre. Not just aircraft, but plugins and enhancements as well. Many users, in this thread alone, that have pointed to the poor ATC, AI traffic and live weather. They have also mentioned the 3rd party software that offers enhancements or sometimes replaces those default services. Already we are seeing a growing number of those improvements. Just as A/M had predicted.

The new evolution toward cloud based software, both in business applications and gaming, has changed the way add ons interact. The voracity of people about their data security has forced the developers to build in excessive security to any software that allows for 3rd party involvement. Given any opportunity to access our computers, the cyber criminals will exploit it. It is with that in mind that Microsoft has changed the way that plug-ins work with MSFS. In previous versions developers created dynamic link libraries as “modules” to alter the behavior of the sim environment and allow software to independently manipulate the Windows environment to suit their purpose. Once you allow access outside the base sim, there is very little to prevent free roam within our private data.

This new focus toward system security means that 3rd party developers cannot use the code they spent years creating for things like the PMDG 737NG series. They now must start over. They cannot simply port over the code. The programmers have to learn new ways of doing things. This all takes time. It took years, not months, for some of the study level aircraft we enjoyed previously, to be produced. It will take years to do it again, in a different language.

A/M has admitted that they went a bit too far in the oversimplification of the Garmin systems. They have created new partnerships to improve some of the default behaviors but do not expect the functionality of any of the default systems to ever match up to what the pros on the outside will offer us.

Much of the frustration in this thread comes from users that expected a complete experience out of the box. Fully interactive ATC. Live weather that you could consistently match up with what you see out the window. Airliners with operational circuit breakers and FMCs that matched the real world. Fully functional Garmin touch screen cockpits. All of these things were promised, they say. Yes they were. They told us it would be “As Real As It Gets”. I am convinced they were looking at the vision of where this sim will be when some of us have $5000 worth of add-on hardware and software plugged into our sims.

Just look at the price of one high end (still NOT study level) aircraft. Shop for some of the premiere weather and scenery add-ons. You could easily spend hundreds to boost your sim. Would you have purchased MSFS if all those Pro features were already included? Would you have purchase this sim if was $999 and not $99? Why not? That is the sim you expected. That is what you will have invested into it in a couple of years. So why not now?

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It’s way better than i expected.

Only thing i don’t like is it’s very sensitive to issues and there are no tools to find the solution.

To begin with, most of your post reads as a direct attack to me. Much of what you say is nothing i ever stated.

I’d like you to tell me where exactly i said anything contradicting that.

Asobo have been quite clear in all of their communications that none of those systems are going to be open to third party developers. There are currently no systems that replace default ATC (there are tools that allow you to ignore default ATC, but not replace it), default AI traffic (AIG has been in talk with Asobo over this, so far nothing has changed, as far as we know), or default weather (Asobo have been most adamant about this, and what tools exist have to hack their way into the code and produce incredibly poor results. I frankly don’t see how you can claim what you’re claiming.

That subject has been discussed over and over and so far no one has been able to provide a convincing argument about how any of the measures taken improve security, considering people still have to run an installer in most cases.

This isn’t about programmers learning new ways of doing things. This is about programmers not having the means of doing things. Sandboxing has removed a lot of tools from developers’ toolboxes and it offered no alternatives.

It’s interesting that you’re telling me all of these things but that you don’t even know that the whole point of WASM is so that developers can port over their old C++ code into FS2020…

Those pros are currently blocked from delivering their Garmin simulations to FS2020, and their attempts at opening a channel of discussion with the developers have received no response. In other words, at present and according to you, it looks like incomplete systems is all we’re ever going to get.

I invite you to read my post above:

To conclude: I am not saying anything that has not been communicated through official channels. Asobo and Microsoft have been very clear that they do not want third party developers to override core components of the sim, such as the flight model or the weather system. They want third party developers to use the SDK to develop any and all addons from FS2020, be them scenery, airplanes, or gauges. This is well known and easily available information. To which i add what i have said before:

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