That’s it try and twist it round on to someone else rather than look in the mirror. I fully understand VOR’s thanks.
The Caravan has your so called Garmin was my point. So when you said you don’t fly with the Garmin you were wrong and misleading. Establishing what Garmin you were on about was relevant to this discussion. Stop blaming others mis-understanding on your lack of clear communication.
Yes it’s off topic now but I won’t have someone calling out me and others when the buck clearly stops with them. We were all just trying to help. End of.
Your post seemed to indicate otherwise.
I made it quite clear that I DO NOT use the Garmin or any GPS when flying.
You are welcome to read my posts again and indicate where I have said that the point at issue for me is navigating using GPS?
To navigate VOR you do not require GPS.
Yes of course it is build into the Caravan. Doesnt mean I need to use it.
Dear oh dear! Please dont be so aggressive. There is no need. Stick to the actual issue.
Perhaps you should consider the Analog / Steam Gauge Caravan mod from JustFlight. That way you can go as old school as you want and not have to even look at all the newfangled tech that you seem to not really gel with very well.
And just for the record, there’s nothing wrong with the G1000NXi. It works just as the real world unit does. You can do coupled VOR / ILS approaches with it without using the GPS functionality of it at all. I’ve done them without issue. Did one in the Kodiak just last night to try this out. My guess is that you’re not up on using the more complex (and more realistic) G1000NXi whereas the default unit is nowhere near being accurate to the real thing, but much easier to use.
I think I’m a bit confused in general. The only place to tune nav radios in the Caravan is in the G1000, and the only way get VOR guidance is to tune them in the G1000 and then use the HSI on the G1000 to get the current deviation.
Additionally, while you indicated that removing the Marketplace G1000 NXi cured your issue, the Marketplace G1000 NXi does not even apply to the Caravan. The Caravan already comes stock with the G1000 NXi as of SU10, so removing the Marketplace package has no effect on that aircraft.
The Marketplace package only applies now to third party aircraft which do not have the NXi by default. In that case it will replace the AS1000 with the G1000 NXi.
Thank you for this. I will certainly have a look at it.
Please allow me to correct you on one rhing; it isnt that I dont “gell” with GPS but after 30 years of flying I realised I prefer the activities of real piloting rather than being a GPS bus driver.
So I focus these days on VOR navigation. Indeed as explained in my original post, it wasnt the case that I do not understand how to operate a simple GPS but rather that, for some unknown reason the presence of the GPS addon in my Content Folder interfered with my VOR flying.
I have no idea why. I thought maybe others have the same issue. But it made me wonder why so many here on this forum always seem to be so obsessed with the functionality of the GPS, when they could engage and indeed enjoy the pleasure of being a real pilot and engage in VOR navigation.
For sone reason suddenly everybody assumed I dont know how to operate a GPS as this wasnt the issue I highlighted in my post.
Whether a plane has GPS build in or not doesnt really matter to me. I dont have to use it.
However I will certainly look at the plane you have highlighted. Sounds interesting.
I just wish some folks here would take the route of real pilot training and learn and use VOR navigation, rather then just be GPS Busdrivers. Afterall you cant really kill anyone. So learn to be a real pilot.
I do enjoy some hand flying using VORs occasionally. I do it because it’s a different skillset, and it keeps you far busier during a flight than just letting the plane fly itself. I’ll even hand fly GPS or ILS approaches at times just because I feel like it.
That said, like NDBs, VORs are a thing of the past. It’s just a matter of time now before they’re gone. 30% of VORs in the US will be taken offline over the next 2-ish years, and within a decade, they’ll likely be gone completely. The same thing is happening in Canada. Not sure how this is working out in the rest of the world.
GPS is the way of the future, regardless how we may feel about it. Even if it’s hand flying to hold the magenta line from waypoint to waypoint.
You should! If you want the old school flying experience, that will give it to your right there. You can select which instrument stack you want in your plane - from all analog, or GPS (GNS, or even GTN) to go from really old school to modern retrofit.
Not sure if you like the King Air, but they also have a full steam gauge version for that plane too.
I’m an old school pilot, having trained for my PPL in 1997 on a plane with conventional steam gauge instruments. I was taught how to navigate by compass heading, stop watch, whiz wheel, paper map, and (as a luxury) VOR and ADF/NDB. I didn’t have any fancy glass cockpit or GPS.
But what @Crunchmeister71 wrote above is 100% correct. Time marches forward. GPS is objectively a better, more reliable, and safer method of navigation. I certainly understand the appeal in using more primitive techniques like dead reckoning and radio navigation if you’re looking for a retro throwback challenge, but there’s a reason literally every real pilot on the planet uses either a glass cockpit or a tablet/EFB with something like ForeFlight these days.
I wouldn’t call it obsessed anymore than people are obsessed with modern plumbing. Of course you don’t need modern plumbing, and you might even have fun going without it for awhile. I like tent camping too. But yeah, the world pretty much relies on it now because it’s massively better in every way than what we had.
My flight instructor didn’t show me the GPS until my very last lesson, and I don’t think we used it on the checkride. And I routinely just fly by sectionals and pilotage in the sim. Following a pink line in a video game is super boring. But in real life, I’m taking my iPad with ForeFlight with me on a cross country.
The op’s responses are still going over my head. As @Bishop398 from workingtitle clearly pointed out that the caravan uses the g1000nxi even for vor tuning and tracking. That’s the only way as far as I know. Are we talking about not having to use the gps mode (magenta line)? You still will have to use the g1000nxi. How do you NOT use it in the default caravan and fly with vor/localizer/glide slope?
Many VORs are designated as critical infrastructure to the nation’s airspace and will not be removed. They would be used in the event of GPS jamming, interference, or complete failure. In the past when the military tests its GPS jamming capability, NOTAMS have been issued to warn pilots of the tests.
Yeah. There are something like 36 GPS satellites, not counting other nations’ systems. I think the minimum service number is 24 satellites in the constellation. So it’s certainly possible to lose it functionally.
Also, i would guess it will be possible for some time to buy a 60 year old plane and not have the money to retrofit it.
The FAA (and Nav Canada) are in the process of decommissioning VORs. They’re not eliminating them all, but most of the current ones will be shut down eventually. 30% of them by 2025, and more to come in the future.
Can’t contribute much to the radio nav issue in the sim as I don’t have it… I tried an ILS to mins in the Beaver into KSEA and it went fine.
Regarding radio nav in general though, it’s far from obsolete and VORS aren’t going to cease to exist anytime soon. Even NDBs are used regularly in many parts of the world. I flew a 737 transcon last year (in reality) with both FMCs MELd; it certainly wasn’t difficult.
I do enjoy older navigation techniques though; the farther back you go, the more they become art as well as science. If you want the ultimate nav challenge, it can be done really realistically in this sim: navigate across a wide stretch of ocean to find a small island, using only dead reckoning and celestial nav. Significant learning curve, but if you like this stuff it’s a fun rabbit hole:
Indeed, but only one in the plane. So which is more likely to fail, all the Sats. Or the one system in the plane?
But there are no plans to decommission all VORTAC and VOR/DME transmitters. Merely those VOR stations that are obsolete.
I am not sure what will happen to the DNB transmitters. I must also assume that should the US consider it necessary for defense purposes, GPS accuracy can be significantly changed. I am told this is also one of the drivers why Europe is deploying it’s own, the Galileo system I think its called.
But all this raises an interesting issue; should VOR station therefore also be removed from the Sim? There would be no compelling reason to do so. It is only a SIM afterall and there are no real safety or other concerns that make solely GPS flying desirable.
If they are removed in line with real world strategy eventually VOR flying ability might be removed from the Sim and we all end up as GPS Bus drivers.
I went through all the stages from using GPS to flying VOR/DME on steam gauges. Now I often fly TL-2000 in sim with a glass cockpit and do not use GPS at all. I just turn on the menu page instead of the map and enjoy the visual flight using real sectional chart for navigation. In real life I prefer GPS, but in sim GPS is too boring.
It’s pretty clear cut…they should be removed. If they’re not there IRL, then they shouldn’t be in the sim, regardless of peoples opinions on VOR vs GPN nav.
They are removed from MSFS when the R/W VOR is decommissioned. At least when using Navigraph navdata for MSFS. Many former VOR/DME installations have not been fully deactivated. Often the DME portion is left active, but the VOR portion is removed. That happened a while ago for the r/w ELZ (Wellsville) VOR/DME about 40 miles west of here. It was reverted to a DME only, and MSFS accurately shows it as just a DME.
Why is it so clear cut? It is a simulation afterall, not reallife. GPS flying in real life is a safety feature, an airways control feature and a fuel saving feature. I get all that.
None of these apply in the SIM.
Where in real life GPS flying may be interesting or rather be part of the job, in a Simulation it is boring. Why? because you arent doing anything but sit and watch the screen. You arent actually going anywhere. I have read posts where people set a flightplan in the GPS to fly say from London to NY and go and have a sandwich elsewhere while the flight is in progress.
Fine, but thats a good example of GPS flying. The computer does it all.
Removing all the VORs from the SIM will therefore also remove a great deal of enjoyment for many.
Sure, some may enjoy sitting on their office chair watching a computer program follow a GPS flight, but some dont. Many enjoy the challenge of actually doing something like navigating, picking up frequencies, deciding on VS etc.
One is as valid as the other.
Surely it is ‘clear cut’ that the SIM should remain as versatile as possible for as many people as possible to enjoy?
