That’s the best BUGS flight simulator…
Man o man do I feel your pain…BUT!!! I have been simming now for 20 years. In that time I have pretty much quoted your post or a variation of it to myself over a thousand times. I have gotten so frustrated that I got rid of my hardware at one time or another. Swore off flight sims forever. I get where you are coming from 100%, and then some. “It’s just not fun any more” has rolled off my lips countless times.
But…There is no one sim that comes to mind when I look back at my rocky relationship with flight simming. Maybe Xplane…God what a mess that sim is. But DCS, MFS, IL-2, and Xplane have all done this to me. It is the nature of the beast. There is nothing that anyone can do about it. So although I feel your pain, I also understand that this is a 50/50 proposition at best sometimes and even lower odds of perfect flights or casual flying if you chose the Beta version of some of these sims. To me Beta (although I use it whenever it’s available) releases are counter productive for any company. They may get the benefit of the experience of their users but 98% of the feedback they get is whiners, people who aren’t doing it right, or people who are clueless about any of this stuff. They literally have to wade through thousands of less than helpful suggestions to get to something that they can use.
So flight simming in general has always had these issues no matter who creates them. Sorry…Them’s the breaks if you want to be an armchair pilot…
If it is of any use to you, after 20 years of simming, MFS 2020 has been the least problematic and the most advanced sim thus far. It’s simply the best out there right now. I removed Xplane from my rig a week into FSX. I can’t even look at Xplane after FSX. It’s like having to be Snoopy flying his doghouse in a Charlie Brown cartoon after being given a real Concord or something. No comparison whatsoever.
I just read through almost 150 posts in this thread. I am asking myself, “What, exactly, can the developers learn from this?.” … Absolutely nothing.
The last Q&A session made it very clear that the development team is very aware of the issues. What they need is DATA. 116 users arguing about how much they paid for the sim and what they got for their money, comparisons with other simulation programs and the classic, “I don’t have any problems, so you must be doing something wrong” vs “I am an expert in (insert field here) and my computer is perfect”.
Before anyone flames me for just adding to the noise, please take a step back and scan through the above posts and try to pick out some valuable information that would help either a user or developer find a solution.
If you have an issue with the sim, please read the following…
Then you can come back here and flame me if you still think it will help.
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But what if I did make a bunch of detailed bug reports, and only now a single report got tagged as ‘Bug logged’, 11 months after I reported it? And it’s something super stupid and easy to fix?
I completely understand some people are loosing some patience…
And then every other bug report, somebody joins the discussion with ‘this doesn’t need to be fixed’. Well, that’s angering.
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You followed the Q&A. Jorg was very clear that they triage the Zendesk reports every morning. He was also clear that the development schedule has hampered their ability to get thru the fixes as efficiently as the would like. You will also remember that there is a plan to dedicate a SU to just fixing the backlog.
No argument, @Tjoeker . I am not just talking to the people complaining about bugs, I am also asking those with no solution to a users complaint to, PLEASE, just move on to the next thread. There is no value in simply dismissing someone’s concern. Just as there is no value in responding to them.
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Yes, albeit he realized this about 14 months too late. I’ve been saying right from the start that they should focus on fixing bugs and improving UX rather then adding new things. But saying that too will get some angry reactions here…
(and yes, again, modelers too have their set of issues to fix)
I’m glad he realized this now. Still, we’ll have to wait 3-4 more months for this much needed update. I hope you realize too that this caused a lot of impatience on the forum…
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They’re pushing zendesk because it’s much easier to ignore issues that way thanks to it not being public.
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I don’t believe that. Why have somebody on the other side responding to things if they won’t use it…?
Again, no argument.
To be honest, however, as you can see from my stats, I have dedicated a lot of time trying to help users that are struggling determine the difference between user error, system setup, sim settings and real bugs.
While I recognize there are real bugs that only the developers can solve, experience has shown that the majority of problems reported have been resolved right here in the community. Not work arounds, solutions.
Unfortunately, frustration and antagonizing posts have overshadowed the “good news” stories. New users simply follow the trend of angry posts instead of using the forum as intended, asking for help. They don’t do this because they show up angry. They do this because that is the trend. The most recent posts are just people arguing and complaining so they just step into that role.
I have watched to degeneration. It is not imagined. It used to be easy to find users that could be helped. Now we have to wade through the rants to find the users actually interested in solving their problem.
@Tjoeker keep posting detailed bug reports. If the solution cannot be found here, repeat the report to Zendesk. The process does work.
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Yet for all of the hand wringing posts that I see and hear about over CTD’s and other issues, there are literally tens of thousands of other users of the sim who have absolutely no issues with it.
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I would love for you to share the empirical data from which you make that statement.
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This is what I have been posting about. Can we simply accept that there are users that are having nightmares over this sim and others that just go fly?
Is there really ANY result that can come from your discussion that does not end in dispute? If dispute is the purpose of posting then another discussion simply gets closed.
Let’s focus on fixing the things we can and Zendesk those we can’t.
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Just read the forums…Case proven…
Are you saying that my last couple of posts aren’t good arguments? Or am I mistunderstanding this?
If it weren’t for the repeated whining on this forum we would not have gotten the promise of a bugfix only sim update…
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My apologies. No. I mean, “I have no argument with what you said.”
Perfect example of poor communication. I should know better.
To me, “no argument” is a simple phrase to convey a basic agreement. To others… well read above. 
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Has it?
In my perception there has been a HUGE storm of rant and protest after SU5, especially with regards to the impact on graphics. Heck, there was a heated discussion about downgrade, wasn’t there?
Have we heard anything on those issues?
There were - and still are - tons of threads on CTD’s ( I can tell, it started for me with SU5, can’t use the WT CJ4 any more). Have we heard anything substantial, other than that the overall CTD count is the lowest since launch?
There is a VERY substantial thread about the flaws of night lighting, with TONS of analysis and very profound suggestions, and yet all they were talking about was sepia mask and draw distance of the lights, but that is old stuff from nearly a year ago and has been talked about in a few Q&A’s already.
I am totally with you that in order to solve issues a proper description of the problem with as many substantial information as possible is needed, supported by an equally thorough Znedsek report. But threads like this one are warranted too (as long as they are the exception, not the rule), because maybe sometimes it can be beneficial to make the mangers and devs aware that on customer side their decisions are met with strong emotions.
Anyway - no reason to flame you, thanks for your commitment. I hope for many constructive threads that will be recognized on the dev’s side.
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This, I will offer an argument for.
In general the only threads that gain any attention from the developers are those that are pushed to them by the moderators.
Jorg made it very clear that the bug list from Zendesk has been growing. The current process of updates has not allowed enough time to address those bugs. That is why we are getting a dedicated bug update. NOT because of hundreds of generalized “whining”.
This is why they push Zendesk. It provides them with detailed reports, every morning, that allows for open discussion and triage of those bugs. Unfortunately, until now, the agenda of development did not allow for enough resources to make the inroads that Jorg wanted to see.
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@TomL7753 I picked these highlights, not because you are wrong, in fact you are dead on, but because this is where, I think, much of the frustration comes from.
The forum is NOT a direct link to the developers.
We can rant and rave. We can post extensive descriptions of bugs. We can even present solutions to some of those bugs. It isn’t until the moderators see a specific issue gain a certain traction that they, after discussion, decide to push the issue up to the developers.
A very limited number of team members are reading the forum. It was never intended as a line of communication to Microsoft or Asobo. Some of the upper management have commented that they have read some of our complaints on the forum but they have also said, “well that’s the first time I have heard about that.”, when asked directly about some issues that have been discussed here.
It needs to be understood that when we rant and rave or present issues we are really just speaking to the other users. Some users are happy to help but are by no means worthy of the wrath that gets vented here.
That is the most important lane of communication we have. Some don’t like it. Some say they are ignored. The fact remains…
Zendesk is our ONLY official channel. Use it.
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You are right, but I fear there’s a comparable selection process, as the amount of Zendesk reports is probably not manageable otherwise. And it has the disadvantage of missing feedback, which oftentimes helps in rethinking own assumptions and thus can lead to a more productive process of idea-finding.
Therefore I think there is a need to strengthen the analysis of the forums, maybe by hiring some assistant community managers.
As they emphasize how important our feedback is in every Q&A, it should be met with an appropriate effort to gather as much information as possible from it.
The moderators are volunteering users as far as I am aware, and such a task would be too much to expect from them.
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Hi, I’ve been following numerous posts from fellow simmers who have experienced difficulties, often without any rational reason. In fact, I’ve posted effectively saying the issues are ‘minor’ as such, and will soon disappear, thus asking everyone to be ‘patient’.
However, following recent updates, I now am finding I am getting incredibly frustrating issues, making even me question why this sim feels like it is going backwards.
Briefly, since early summer, I’ve seen a massive deterioration in my VR experience, going from ultra to now almost minimum settings, and all I get is jittery pictures 100% of the time, freezing frames, screen turning black, although my Rift S produces in excess of 30 FPS, and, finally, CTD for no apparent reason at all.
The worst problem is one I’ve watched others have but I didn’t. Now though, with no obvious reason, my CTD occurs mid flight. One minute I’m flying effortlessly, on auto pilot, I’m asked to do something such as change altitude, bang, screen freezes, egg-timer then black screen and gone. Some say every change should be preceded by coming out of VR, make the change and go back to VR. But that is crazy! Taking off the VR set to make a simple change like altering altitude, then putting it on again….
I’ve tried everything, but nothing works. My £3000+ pc performs no better than my old one which was at least 6 years older. It’s the inability to see why VR has deteriorated so much that I question . It has got worse not better with each update this year. The scenery is less sharp, the clouds (when used) more vague. I have no AI running, weather used is generally clear.
So, is it me? I have criticised others when they complained of the same things I am, and I’ll apologise unreservedly now for doing so, given now I am losing faith in this sim too. Over a year gone and I see not improvement but retrogression…even though ASOBO talk the contrary position.
So,who is, actually telling the truth?
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