Those two highly contrasting bits of feedback do a great job of demonstrating one of the issues which led to the protracted development period of this update - some will say a change has been positive, others negative. The myriad of hardware setups and perceptions about how a Hawk should fly contribute to that too.
In the end we have released what we feel to be the best compromise. We’ve spent many frustrated months trying to get it perfect but ultimately we are limited in reaching total realism until 2024 arrives and we finally get proper control over the flight model.
It’s not a real dead zone, but the aircraft is very unresponsive until a very strong stick input is applied (about 30-40% deflection of the full range). Feels like a case of XBox Controller optimization to me that is unsuitable for proper flight sticks.
Might be realistic, I don’t know … but I don’t like it much, to be honest.
Running the Pico 4 VR headset. Actually in VR the aircraft was perfectly distanced from the camera. If you will adjust this back, it would be nice if the user could adjust this parameter. In fact I wish it was possible for all planes in the sim. They are all very far away in external view. Thanks.
No dead zone on my controls (TM Warthog), had a flight up to Lossie FL20 350 knts and adjusting the trim sensitivity down I could fly hands off stick no problem. Did a few touch and go’s, I found everything predictable, had a right to left wind at my 2 o’clock which was no problem to compensate for.
Thumbs up from me as well.
On a side note, there were 4 other fast jets in the highlands. tried to follow them but my little Hawk hadn’t the legs lol.
I think I can understand what VanDisaster is talking about, but it’s nowhere near as severe as described for me (TM Warthog - linear sensitivity curve). If anything, I’d say it’s akin to applying a gentle sensitivity curve to a formerly linear joystick sensitivity. It does seem a little less ‘snappy’, less reactive to initial inputs from the joystick. That said, without comparing the two versions back to back immediately, it’s hard to say for certain.
Some other observations with the caveat that I’ve only got recent experience of the Hawk (only used it from 0.1.7) so everything is in relation to that version. I had got used to flying it and didn’t seem to experience the ‘unflyable’ feeling that some had reported. I nearly always fly in live weather and although some takeoffs were quite challenging, I didn’t ever have anything I couldn’t control, unless we’re talking about extreme edge cases.
The takeoff and landing (at RAF Valley, live weather was too mild, so dialled in a 15mph 90 degree crosswind) , now seems very benign in comparison to the 0.1.7.
Airbrake, landing gear and flaps seem to be less ‘effective’. Speed seems to bleed off a lot more slowly now and the aircraft speed and altitude doesn’t plummet as previously upon deployment. I didn’t notice any ballooning at all when operating the flaps.
I can’t say whether it’s better or worse now, it’s certainly very different to fly, I’m just curious as to whether it’s more true to life or not. I would love to get some input from somebody like CGAviator (or indeed any real-life Hawk pilot). As I mentioned, I’m relatively new to the Hawk, but I did put a lot of hours into it and felt I could ‘fly’ it to a reasonable (sim) standard. It’ll take a bit of time to recalibrate to this version.
Still not good for me. I can’t even trim it correctly. I started at 11 000 ft 200 kts and was able to speed up to 320 kts and rise altitude to 12 500 ft using only trim nose down slowly. Maybe I’m doing something wrong?
Flew nicely for me last night… first flight of the update. No deadzone, but obvious heavier controls as it slows which would be correct. I like the way it feels. Still one of my favs in VR, and I always forget she is a handful with the gear and flaps out.
Yes, that’s exactly what I did. Trimmed more or less at 11 000 ft 200 kts. Aircraft was bouncing slowly up and down +/- 500ft - that was expected. After that, I changed trim sensitivity to almost lowest value and tried to trim it more precisely. Then strange things started to happen. After each tick up (nose down) I was gaining altitude, speed and engine RPM. I gave up at 12 500 ft and 320 kts.
I have been trying to get my head around this. FWIW I find the “new” stick roll sensitivity (deadzone and roll acceleration if we want to call it that) absolutely fine in this version.
But I really want to blame my controls or other settings. I need to blame my controls or other settings. Or my piloting skills or expectations of what this highly aerobatic aircraft should be able to do. But I am really struggling with some aspects of this, same as before the update. I ran without force feedback plugin and it was the same so it’s not that.
I turned off FS Realistic Turbulence and it does seem to have made a lot of difference, but still snaps away like no other modern aerobatic aircraft, especially if I have trimmed for a good speed for manoeuvres (around 400?). In that case, when doing a roll, the slightest input (like 20%) of nose up or down during the roll makes it suddenly violently snap away, scrub a LOT of speed instantly and start to fall into a spin and out of the sky. If I don’t trim it and just hold level with the stick, then it’s less aggressive and snappy in this way, but still does it really almost randomly in that sometimes doing the same thing is fine, other times it just loses it. Is that right?
Have a look at 03:14 on the video.
I am trying to keep G’s for high speed moves around 4 at peak, and the speed I think is enough to maintain momentum but maybe I am just not being progressive enough with the controls. I am not slamming the stick around - really am just adding pressure and trying to let the plane breathe. Not being rough or sudden with it.
Also I find that when flying inverted, I need AT LEAST 380 speed to have any nose down authority (I mean pushing stick away so as to not hit the ground when up side down). That is just about enough to give a tiny bit of climb when inverted but it’s very spongy. Wouldn’t a plane like this have a bit more bite to be able to fly inverted at a bit lower speeds than 400?
I’d love to see what @CGAVIATORUK thinks, but his last published video was 3 months ago. I hope he is OK?!
Yup, so the Hawk is suffering from aerodynamic instability (wobbles and snapping) due to many sim updates but a delay in fixing it. There are complications with CFD and swept wing models I believe. Any pitch held during rolling manoeuvres will create the snap. For now, don’t max roll it. You are also correct the nose down pitch authority is too limited when inverted. Hopefully this gets fixed soon but I know Just Flight have a lot on their plate. I’ve not flown the Hawk for a while for this reason. As for g during aeros, 4-5 is good and about 350-400kt should work for most things. Hope that answers your questions
Hey Chris!! Glad you’re still with us! Guess you’re just busy with other things but happy to know you’re still “in the game”
Yep it does thanks - and makes me feel better that I’m not going mad. Problem is this IS the supposedly fixed Hawk we have been waiting all these moons for. So I dunno. Guess I’m just disappointed (still) as I hoped the new version would be good after all this delay and testing and tuning they have done. Or have they?!
JF have noted that they are looking forward to having full control of the flight model “in 2024”. I presume they are referring to FS2024.
Edit: To investigate this ‘snap-back’ phenomenon, I’ve just done some test flying in both the JF Hawk, and also Dave Garwood’s Hawker Hunter.
For each I accelerated to about 380 knots. Then I pitched-up, banked to about 45 degrees, pulled back on the stick, and applied a steady roll to the right.
Observations:
Both aircraft flew a steady right-rotating ‘corkscrew’ whilst above 300 knots. Then as they slowed down, to below 300knots, they would abruptly snap back to the left.
To get out of that, I’d let go of the controls to let it stabilize etc…
Conclusion: this behaviour seems to be an Asobo thing.
