How about P-factor? In my opinion it is much too little compared to the real life plane! The real plane requires significant right rudder and left aileron when climbing at full rpm and nose on the horizon. The sim plane requires only very little of it, if any…
Waiting to see how the new prop physics settle. From an initial look they may be helpful here, but any adjustments to that will be once we know how well it’s all been implimented, if it’s suitable etc. No point in changing the current engine file only to have to change the whole lot yet again because of a new system - to be blunt, the way it’s going we will still have to be making significant changes because of sim updates in up to ten years’ time. That’s sustainable if we only have a couple of aircraft. It’s not sustainable with potentially five years’ worth of releases and at that point the business case gets skewed - where is the priority? New releases for income or pay devs to keep chasing Asobo’s tail?
So to go back to your comment about P-factor, we’ve already made the decision to let the dust settle and there will be a further update.
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I mean, I fly PA28’s IRL too and they can get kinda sloppy when initiating turns if you don’t provide any rudder input. Do some dutch rolls in one next time you go up.
I tried initiating banks left and right in the sim without any rudder input that the plane kept it’s nose basically fixed on the target I picked out in the horizon without much if any sway. The ball (inclinometer) indication behaves strangely here too. As a result when you try to do coordinated dutch rolls the aircraft responds rather unusally imo.
Real world example (different plane, same aerodynamic principle)
Also I’m sensing some hostility in your response. Me making criticisms or observations doesnt equate to me trashing a developer’s work. I’ve bought Just Flight products for years now, I wouldn’t be a long time JF customer if I didn’t have faith in the products.
Anyway. Some of this COULD be due to the fact that a 2D representation on a screen doesnt carry the same sense of motion that a 3D representation would. So perhaps I’m simply missing the feeling due to that restriction in “feel” or “visual depth”. Maybe.
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Forgive me, and admittedly I’ve not set foot in a PA28 for a good few years, but in the couple of hundred hours I’ve flown them (including my PPL & IMC in the Warrior and CPL course & test in the Arrow) I’ve never once needed to apply opposite rudder and aileron together to counteract anything, except in a crosswind.
If you’re inputting right rudder and left aileron together then you’re crossing the controls. That would suggest that you’ve got far too much unnecessary rudder input going on and you’re having to counteract the rolling moment with aileron.
The whole PA28 series are very benign training/cruising aircraft by design. Other than needing a squeeze of rudder in a turn they tend to fly pretty true. In my opinion JF have got it pretty much bang on as it is.
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That’s the thing. Nobody said anything about cross controlling. It would be right rudder + right aileron to initiate a right bank in a coordinated manner. I’m not sure how you didn’t come across this in your time in PA-28’s or among other aircraft.
With lift comes drag. When a right bank is initiated the aircraft’s left wing provides more lift than the right. In duing so it also creates more drag. Right pedal usage combats the left yawing tendancy (adverse yaw) generated during the start of the right bank.
The red/orange yaw arrow is a visualization of what the aircraft does on its own as a result of that drag. To counteract it, you’d put in right rudder so the bank is smooth and coordinated.
In as easy terms as possible.
(Initiating) right bank = right aileron + some right rudder
Once the bank is established little to no rudder adjudtments are needed.
(Initiating) left bank = left aileron + some left rudder
Once the bank is established little to no rudder adjudtments are needed.
They did, the post above the devs.
Afraid crossing the controls like that is pilot error.
That aside, and as I already said, the PA28 requires a small squeeze of rudder to centre the slip and co-ordinate a turn. If the games aero model doesn’t currently allow for that then it’s not the end of the world.
What the dev said is absolutely right. With a sim update coming every other month devs can’t keep chasing their tails with the constantly moving goalposts. When the sim is stable in that regard then I’d suggest that is the time to update the aircraft.
Ah. Didn’t see that one. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
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I thought I’d hit reply to that post which I mustn’t have done. I can see how you thought I was replying to you! No worries.
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Yes the down going aileron produces drag, which produces adverse yaw, one way to counter this is with aileron differential, up going aileron goes up more than down going aileron goes down, thats what works on my RC glider, just throwing that in for more thought.
Yep. There are definitely mitigating elements. I believe the PA28 also has this to a degree. The wing dihedral also helps with this - making the adverse more benign than it would have otherwise been. Still noticable though.
Some aircraft are incredibly stable when it comes to roll, I read recently that the L-39 Albatross - despite not having an electronic FCS/SAS needs no rudder input to initiate banks/turns in a coordinated manner. Basically it turns like a screw. Anyway.
Does this mean the pending updates mentioned on the JF forums aren’t being released until after SU8?
@ShinobiShadow man, how do you guys keep all of that info fresh and readily available? I’m not a RL pilot but I’ve been thinking about going for it, and I got an online ground school for Christmas and I’ve been reading the PHAK, but if you’d asked me to describe P factor or adverse yaw I’d give you a blank stare.
No, just the new prop entries.
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The material you study on paper is experienced first hand in the air. That really helps it stick as a memory item. Also a refresher never hurts, everyone forgets things and with aviation there’s a lot to remember. This is why staying current and reviewing material/concepts is critical.
I will say that the fundamental and universal physics of fixed wing flight tend to stick with you for a while. Just gonna take some time to learn/memorize at first.
If youre interested in flight school and can afford it I say go for it. Even if its just for an hour or two.
Seriously? I know I have been told I can be blunt, but suggesting hostility because I lay out my point of view in a concise manner is a new one on me!
I expect everyone to be able to make constructive criticisms and observations, in the same way that I should be able to respond - I do not know you or your background, aviation or simming history. I simply made a statement - as I said, I have not flown the PA28 series, but other similar GA aircraft that I have flown tend to demonstrate what is shown in your video later on, a slight sway away from the direction of turn. That’s what I have aimed for, but slightly less than what I am used to as that is what I have been told the behaviour is like in this series of aircraft. In general, when people start asking for ‘a lot more adverse yaw’ they have a background in gliding (incidentally, as do I), hence my not being sure as I was replying to a short, two-sentence post asking for adverse yaw and suggesting it hadn’t been implimented despite being available.
That’s the long and the short of it, I don’t know why you aren’t seeing the adverse yaw if that’s the case but it most definitely is in there.
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@SixBillionKgMan - with regard to how you keep things “fresh and readily available” it comes down to what ShinobiShadow said: once you apply the book knowledge to actual flight experience it all becomes very clear, and second nature. That said, you never quit learning; every flight there is a little something new. That’s what makes aviation so much fun.
Having quite a bit of time in two different PA28s over the years, I will say that Just Flight’s model comes as close as can be reasonably expected to “feeling” like the real thing. Landing is the key for me: it is very difficult to replicate “real” by sight picture alone, but JF does a fine job at having control inputs and sight picture combine to “feel” right. That’s not easy to do.
I enjoy the Arrows too, but the Warrior is simply excellent… one of the very best models currently available in MSFS. It is delightful to fly, and to land.
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If you’re referring to my post, I was referring to climb (at v_x or even v_y) full rpm. The real aircraft (at least the one I fly) needs significant right rudder (and a tad of left aileron) to counter the p-factor. Are you saying you don’t do this in your aircraft, and the ball remains centered when climbing?
Pretty much the only aircaft in the sim that brings back memories for me of actually flying one back when I still had a medical.
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@ShinobiShadow @Seven7Tango I’ve been really leaning towards it, even though I hate commercial flying, especially with how enamored I’ve gotten with MSFS.
I’ve moved on from the Warrior to the Arrow for most of my flying, mostly because that’s the first Piper I could afford in Air Hauler 2, but I still bust out the Warrior from time to time to do things like patterns or S-turns or circles.
My company has a flying club and they have a Warrior, so if I get some things sorted and pull the trigger I’m all set 
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Took the (sim) plane up for another look. Started from a cold start and while was in cruise I tried the wing waggle again and was able to actually see believable and unmistakable adverse yaw for the first time. It’s definitely in there and it’s done pretty well, not sure why I wasnt getting it or seeing it prior, I was looking for it too. Mustve been something on my side.
The rudder response to stabilize it is pretty close to the real deal too (kinda sensitive but that’s something I can adjust w/ rudder axis curves).
So you were right, it’s in the sim. My b.
Also, I noticed a bug on the ground in startup. When you turn the boost/aux pump on in the plane before starting the engine, there’s supppsed to be positive fuel pressure (usually up to or near the white line in the green arc) -so long as theres fuel in the selected tank and the pump is functional and set to (ON) and electrical power is available to run it.
In the sim the needle is showing 0 fuel pressure, that is - until the engine is on. (Could be a bug on my side idk)
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It does sound like the gauge is only indicating pressure from the mechanical fuel pump and ignoring the electrical one. Bug report it.