There certainly are issues in the sim with crosswind effects at the surface. There appears to be more than one issue - crosswinds having too much effect and ground/air transition altering the mechanics inappropriately. Basically, they work correctly on one approach, then fail spectacularly on the next. I use the same techniques I used for years in the RW (crab approach to slip transition). Half the time it works beautifully - the next time it doesn’t. I certainly hope they work it out.
That being said, you need to not only swing the nose into runway alignment at the end, but drop the windward wing down to keep the aircraft from drifting. If the crosswind was fairly strong it wasn’t uncommon for me to land on one wheel, then set the others down.
This sim dramatically exaggerates crosswind effect. The things a crosswind does are correct in the sim, they’re just too strong. 3kts of crosswind component feels like 10kts, 10 feels like 25 etc.
There should be no challenge landing a single engine airplane at its demonstrated crosswind component. Yes, proper technique needs to be applied, but it’s a normal skill - it requires no exceptional ability or effort. In the sim it can get tough though because of the exaggerated wind effect.
Nijntje91 has covered the technique: rudder to align the longitudinal axis with centerline, and aileron to control drift and keep the aircraft over the centerline. After touchdown, smoothly add and hold full aileron into the wind as you decelerate, and steer with your feet. Fun stuff. Hopefully they scale the wind effect down to something realistic eventually though.
Or it makes it easier, in real life it feels unnatural to fly “cross controlled”, that is rudder applied in one direction, ailerons in the other. Its essentially a side slip.
I suspect you have on the order of 1000 or two hours, and probably a CFI rating? Given you’re a taildragger pilot, you clearly have a good amount of experience. While it may be normal skill, it takes lots of practice to develop that normal skill.
Without intimately knowing the proper amount of rudder and wing tip, you can screw up a landing at half the demonstrated crosswind component. By screw up, I mean hear the tires skip a bit sideways on landing.
I agree, and it’s well known, and they’ve said it themselves, that they have a lot of work to do at the transition between flying and landed with respect to the wind and other aspects of the sim.
And, yes, I agree that lack of force makes aircraft control more difficult, easier to over-control.
That’s an aspect of flying that’s always fascinated me. When to trust your senses and when to not (most of the time not). I love that sensation of falling that happens just after takeoff.
But PC simming is kind of for the most part numb. The slightest of control input has no feedback.
I still miss my old MS Force Feedback 2 Stick back from what is close to a half lifetime ago by now. You could feel the weight of the airplane against the ground with that thing, airspeed, etc.
It is the maximum demonstrated by ODA unit member/DER flight test pilot according to an engineering flight test plan as part of a certification plan.
I think you’re saying something similar, but I’m adding that it’s not a limit for an expert pilot either.
Its inclusion in an AFM is as a guideline to help in your aeronautical decision-making. This is the point I think you’re making, which I agree with.
The only thing I’m adding is if you have a 20 kts cross and you know what you’re doing, assuming the plane has no actual limitation, you (legally) can go for it if max demonstrated in the book is 17 kts.
Just as a trivia point, in case it interests you or anyone: There are jurisdictions where that is not true. Sweden is an example (at least it was 10 years ago); the max demonstrated limit in the POH is a legal limit because the Swedish equivalent of the FAA says so. Quite annoying really. Not sure if they are the only ones.
And for the airliner (sim) pilots: Not sure if there are any airlines that consider max demonstrated to be an SOP limit, which to my limited knowledge of airliner operations would make it a legal matter as well (?), or at least not up to the pilot to decide. I am sure there are people on the board who can clarify that - with the caveat that it is jurisdiction specific as well. Some sim pilots here make it a point to follow real world regulations no matter how aggravating they are so they might want to know
In commercial aviation we usually consider them limits, its hard to explain why you continued approach to landing and going off the runway, knowing the crosswind is above max. demonstrated crosswind. We are talking about 35 kts + crosswind on most commercial aircraft, not a slight breeze like on the C172.
Usually the max. demonstrated crosswind component published is about maximum you should be willing to accept. On most aircraft I have flown, the published crosswind component is about the maximum wind where you can still kick the aircraft straight with full rudder. Above that you’ll land a bit in a crab even with full rudder applied.
Usually they are used as a limit, at least all airlines I have flown for so far. They are also a bit more complex, depending on runway width and runway condition code (wet or contaminated runway surface). Even if the airline does consider it to be a recommendation, you really have something to explain when going off the runway. This Swedish rule only applies to Swedish license holders and / or Swedish registered aircraft.
Regarding the airlines, this will typically be spelled out in the FOM, and that makes it a de facto limit as everything in that book is certified by their POI (or equivalent in other countries, I’m in the US.)
Also aircraft specific. In the 737, we’re actually required to land in a partial crab beyond a certain x-wind component. It never stops driving me nuts - too much time in taildraggers haha - but the plane is specifically designed for it, since there’s a limit to how much you can drop the wing. At least with the HUD you have a bank scale visible in the flare
In GA, it’s not unusual to land (nosewheel) aircraft beyond demonstrated x-wind. It’s one of those “take a look and see” things; you’ll either have the necessary control authority in the flare, or you’ll go around. As long as you’ve left yourself an out in the form of divert options with runways more into the wind, this is safe.
At only 250 hours here, I don’t have the same confidence you do. But it certainly is super satisfying when you pull off a good landing in a stiff crosswind. Nailing landings is one of my favorite parts of flying.
Right and that’s smart. In any aircraft operation, there are two sets of limitations that matter - the aircraft’s, and yours.
It’s common for instructors to place wind limits on students - and I don’t just mean student pilots, but anyone training with them. The high emphasis on aeronautical decision making we have these days is very overdue in the GA world, as well. When you’re not comfortable with an operation, that’s the best reason to abort it and flex to plan B.
I’m just talking here in the context of what can be safely done with an airplane; not necessarily what every individual pilot should do. I can explain how to fly a rolling circle too… but I wouldn’t recommend it without the necessary instruction first haha.
Just landed on my local Rwy 13 into a 19 knot wind coming from 100 degrees. According to my trusty old E6B that translates to a 9-10 knot crosswind component.
Everything went just fine, wing low into the wind. Aligned with the runway just prior to main gear contact; no problem. Once the nose wheel touched down it got very difficult to maintain directional control. It seems that once full contact occurs with the landing gear, all rudder authority is cut off immediately.
This is typical in MSFS, and quite atypical in real life.
That’s what I was wondering.
I don’t have that issue.
I don’t normally fly the smaller aircraft often, but I’ve not had a problem with the DC-6 or anything above that.
I generally do the crossed controls landing in those scenarios and pivot before touchdown.
the biggest issue ive seen people have with crosswind landings is Assistance stuff, some tie ailerons to your rudder control - this killed me a couple times lol
that and the lack of adequate separate rudder control can make cross wind landings all but impossible
and just because its ‘rated’ for 17kn crosswinds doesnt mean 10 is gonna be easy
but I didn’t want to go overboard.