Latest Cycle 2108 still not available?

Days later and still the MSFS team has not provided the latest AIRAC cycle. Are we going to have to wait until the next WU or SU? Why do we have to wait at all? Oh its the vacations…what, is everybody gone? :nauseated_face: :face_vomiting:

Why say and claim accuracy with AIRAC and all these Live features if they aren’t going to be available or function? Why do we have to remind the MSFS team of these basic fundamentals over and over and over?

Its not like every MSFS user goes on vacation from MSFS when the MSFS team does!

New AIRAC data has never been provided by Asobo immediately upon its release. It has always been released as part of a WU, SU or hotfix release. If you want it as soon as it’s available, get a Navigraph subscription.

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They made the claim, it is a time sensitive product, it is not our responsibility to find another option, paid or free. It IS their responsibility to provide what they claimed in a timely fashion (same day!).

To compel newcomers striving for realism to buy Navigraph Subscriptions when its the same data is not wise. Once they figure out its a duplicate they will feel cheated.

Making any excuses for any reason is unacceptable and foolish.

For the record I have had a Navigraph Ultimate subscription since it has been available. My purpose is to hold the MSFS team to their word and require good character for the sake of the life of MSFS.

I hope all of that makes sense.

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Where did they make that claim? I have been using MSFS as long as you have. I was also a Tech Alpha Insider. They have never released a new AIRAC cycle on the day of release.

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You said it yourself, they provide new AIRAC data, right? Look below, see for yourself what you said. AIRAC data availability and the date of release is scheduled years ahead of time. It is time sensitive.

Exactly, and there is no sin in requiring them to release it on the day its active. The nature of AIRAC requires this.

What is the sense of providing time sensitive data (that is no secret or surprise to anyone) if its not being provided on time. Makes no sense, would you not want it to make sense?

This is not expecting too much nor is it unreasonable. Any excuse only serves for the data to be released whenever.

But anyway, when is it released too late in your estimation? Where is the line? 5 days, a week, or just skip a month and that’s fine?

Correct. I said that Asobo supplies updated AIRAC data. But NOT on the day the cycle is released. They provide it as part of other updates to MSFS when they do it. Personally, I consider myself lucky that they provide it at all. They could still be using the data from the available cycle when the sim was released and not update it at all. The only time I would consider current data a requirement is if you fly VATSIM. Even then, who’s to say that the different VATSIM facilities update their procedures with the new AIRAC data? The only people that current AIRAC data is time sensitive to are real world pilots, not simulation pilots. Like I said in my original post, if you want up to date AIRAC data, get a Navigraph subscription. That’s what I did. And in the spirit of full disclosure, I didn’t do it for updated data. I did it for the charts.

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So some logical and fundamental questions are:

  • what is AIRAC data?
  • why does MSFS have AIRAC data as a feature?
  • why is it important to MSFS customers?
  • how can a much smaller company provide AIRAC updates in a timely fashion?
  • what would it take for the MSFS team to release on the day of activation?

But the greatest question in this topic, is:

  • why is MikeB54331 so against this topic?

Would you prefer this, so you can be correct and I would be wrong?

I’m simply caring about all flight simmers and companies associated with MSFS. Where is the care for flight simmers with these kind of remarks?:

This comment questions (even nullifies) the need for Navigraph products/services. See how this does not make any sense?

You still did not answer when the AIRAC would be unacceptably late by your standard.

I wonder how you and others would react to a hypothetical NOTAM from Navigraph saying -

‘data is going to be 1 1/2 weeks late from now on, and charts will be be updated as we can get around to it…since you all are not flying in the real world, it is not important.’

Lots of cancelled subscriptions is what I would predict.

And this is evidence that you either cannot understand what I said in response, or maybe you did not comprehend. All you had to do is re-read my response, so you can save the trouble of repeating the same thing. Another possibility is that you are trying to get this topic removed before Monday… :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

I cannot for the life of me understand why you are against the MSFS team updating AIRAC on the day of activation; there is no valid excuse. If you can help me understand this then we may be able to proceed productively.

I wouldn’t object if Asobo decided to do that, I just think it isn’t necessary. But you have your mind made up and nothing anyone could say will change it. So, be mad if you want. I’m going flying. Enjoy your day.

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It’s not like a same-day update would fix the default navdata issue anyway. There’s still a lot of missing navdata and misaligned ILS localiser.

I got myself a navigraph so that it can fix most of the navdata issues and I got charts as a bonus.

But it also would not hurt to have a reliable and sensible schedule in place.

Again, Navigraph is not the topic here, its actually changing the subject and off topic. This is all about default.

Keep in mind that it is not me that “made up my mind”, its the MSFS team that made up their mind, Here is the proof:

NAVBLUE partners with Xbox Game Studios for “Microsoft Flight Simulator” - NAVBLUE an AIRBUS company

I just think they need to be held accountable, and I’m sick of the countless excuses on this forum.

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That article never really said that the navdata update would be delivered in-real-time as soon as the new AIRAC is released.

The only thing I can see from the article that’s even close to anything to do with updated navdata is this.

For the first time ever, the simulation experience will benefit from regularly proficient updated data that will give the possibility to reach a level of realism never before grasped in Microsoft Flight Simulator. With NAVBLUE, we have an excellent partner who always listens to our simulation needs and provides the tools to allows us to present the most realistic navigation data for the flight sim community.”

It only says that the sim will benefit from “regularly proficient updated data”. It doesn’t say that it’s going to be released on the same day as soon as it’s released, only that it is updated regularly. Which they have done so on every World and Sim Updates. Or even small navdata update outside of those cycles.

They didn’t lie, it just seems like there’s a misinterpretation what they’re actually saying by having some expectations that their “regular” update means real time update as soon as they published. While what they actually mean is that the navdata will be regularly updated, which they’ve already done so.

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What do you mean by “really”? What is AIRAC data? If it is not delivered real time, then why have it at all?

Did you conveniently skip over this on purpose?:

NAVBLUE will provide real-world aeronautical data to Microsoft through its Navigation+ and, post launch, Charts+ services, to support the realistic experience that is the next generation “Microsoft Flight Simulator” software.

In case you don’t know what Navigation+ is — from the NavBlue site: Navigation+ - NAVBLUE an AIRBUS company

Benefit from the NAVBLUE Navigation Database and get the most relevant aeronautical navigation information available:
• Enroute (Waypoints, Airways, Airspaces, Communications, Navaids, …)
• Airports including runway characteristics (Airports, Runways, Gates, Communications, Localizer & Glideslopes, Terminal navaids, …)
• Procedures (SID, STAR, Approach, Holding Patterns, …)
• Tailored records (Company Routes, Tailored Procedures, …)
• GridMORA

NAVBLUE works with 195 countries around the world to gather the data via various sources (Aeronautical Information Publication (AIP), NOTAMs or other proprietary government documents). Our Experts receive the data from these sources, and we update, enrich, and maintain the master database that contains more than 4 million ARINC 424 records and make it available every 28-day AIRAC cycle.

Today, the NAVBLUE Navigation Database serves over 250 customers worldwide from Airlines and OEMs to any Services Providers. Our customers benefit from our navigation data for different types of use such as Flight Management Systems (FMS), Terrain Awareness and Warning Systems (TAWS), simulators, ground-based software solutions, airspace modelling, Air Traffic Management (ATM) solutions, weather services, drones, video games and more.

Airbus started using NAVBLUE Navigation Database on all Airbus Flight Test, Training and Delivery activities from end of 2018. Our Navigation Database is constantly evolving according to the latest applicable industry standards and to the emerging industry needs for enhanced data. NAVBLUE is working in close coordination with the Airbus Design Office to support advanced avionics functions and anticipate future needs.

Real-world aero data is updated monthly - not when its convenient to the MSFS team.

Since you say the MSFS team is doing what they said - where are the charts?! There is an accountability and a responsibility issue at hand, why is it so evil to hold MSFS to its word?

AIRAC data is AIRAC data, its updated monthly, I don’t see what is so hard to understand. Unfounded opinions and excuses are not going to work. If the MSFS team does not do what they say, then they make themselves liars, nobody needs to even mention it, it will be plain as day. True facts do not lie, and hype will be called out.

In the past it took complaints from the community to remind the MSFS team to release AIRAC data.

The community should not have to remind them.

I’m not against the MSFS team or product, I just expect to get what we were plainly told we were going to get.

I would like to continue the discussion if you have any further opinions, all I ask is that you base your opinions on true facts.

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I got my popcorn and a coke and settled in for this one…

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Probably not much changes from one month to another so it should come in the next update. I have had a subscription for years so did not even know they were providing it

Good, because who knows when the Navblue Charts+ will ever come as they promised. Just as they promised all the airports in the world. The point is they really did make promises they didnt keep. If they come in 10 years, they should have said as much.

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I don’t know man, but I think you’re probably making a mountain out of a molehill. I would speculate that most MSFS users don’t even have a clue what an “AIRAC Update” even is, much less care too much about it. They fly in mostly good weather, in search of great eye candy, not complicated IAPs because they wouldn’t know how to read one of those if you personally printed one, drove to their home, and handed it to them.

For those of us who do care, I’d also speculate that almost all of us are Navigraph subscribers. I don’t remember how long after starting with MSFS it took me to hear about them, but once I did, I thought about it for maybe 30 minutes before deciding that they needed my money, and I needed their services. But I’m a real world instrument rated private pilot who loves flying in real weather (or self-inflicted bad weather) and shooting approaches down to barely legal minimum conditions.

In other words, I’m a masochist.

I also enjoy some “eye candy” time here and there as well, where I can put the approach plates down and just fly. Go building canyon diving in Manhattan, or ACTUAL canyon diving in the Grand Canyon, or whatever.

Anyway, that’s my free $0.02 worth.

Kev

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But is not MSFS made also for a new generation of pilots/flight simmers? If MSFS provides what it says it provides then all is well. In other words, it is important to think of others. Current navdata in MSFS will help them when they plan from a free website that has current maps and charts.

The tie-in to Flight Aware also plays a part in all of this too. Flight plans from Flight Aware today may not be possible in MSFS today because the navdata in MSFS is still out of date.

With currently 179 views of this topic and only 1 vote, I have little confidence in this community holding the MSFS team to their word. I wonder what MSFS is going to end up like in 9 years…likely a half baked wannabe flight sim, all because of excuses given by this community.

The MSFS team is only giving this community what it wants.

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That’s a little unfair, to be honest… It’s not about making up excuses for them, but the 179 of us are probably thinking reasonably. Regular navdata updates in real time as soon as it’s published requires someone to actually update them. get them formatted into the sim and release it for everyone, right? This is a process that costs money, someone has to do it, and someone has to pay for it. That’s why subscribing to Navigraph to obtain their services makes us entitled to it. Because we’re subscribing them, in other words “paying for them” regularly either monthly/yearly basis to maintain navdata and give us any navdata updates as soon as they’re released.

MSFS isn’t a subscription model (yet) unless you’re on GamePass, but we pay to buy the sim outright, and we are entitled to use the sim for what we pay for. That includes having the Navdata working. And we do get that. They include the Navdata for us to use, and we can create flight plans around the world using it. Now sure, the navdata can sometimes be innacurate, and there are some issues. But generally, I think over 95% of the navdata are quite accurate. And this is probably good enough for most people.

Since the navdata is regularly updated (albeit not as often as the AIRAC cycle), at least we’re getting updated navdata and every updates fixes some navdata to improve it. And look, we’re getting that for free. We’re already paid for the sim engine, and the world aspect of it and the initial navdata that goes with it. Any further updates is like a bonus for us that we don’t pay extra for it. So I think they’re entitled to some slack on how often they want to update the navdata. And remember, someone is paying the person who’s doing the navdata updates and fixes. It’s not like some volunteer doing it for free for everyone.

For most casual and intermediate simmers, the default navblue navdata is good enough. Navdata are there and they’re working. As long as the issues are being worked on and there are upcoming updates to address those Navdata issues, you don’t need to expect anything more from them.

If people want to be a little more serious with simming, then Navigraph option is there to receive the simmers money to keep the navdata updated in real-time. You can’t expect Asobo to operate like Navigraph team for free.

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Its amazing, your post about ‘its not about making excuses’, actually is mostly making excuses for MSFS.

If I did not see it I would not believe it.