Lessons learnt from sim update 13

My experience with SU13 was very similar to most users who experienced download problems. However because I have a relatively slow Internet connection and have always experienced a leisurely download process I simply shut the process down on Thursday evening and waited for another day. Fortunately 12 hours later I was able to download the updates, without having to take any actions other than restarting the Sim.

I’m very glad that Microsoft have issued an apology, and I’m even happier that my sim now seems to be working well, with slightly higher frame rates, less screen tearing and improved graphics, and removal of the dreaded white spot. So I would like to thank the Microsoft team for their work on this update. Those users who are still experiencing problems have my sympathy.

However there are lessons to be learnt I believe.

This forum offers a great opportunity for communication, but it seems very one sided. Every day hundreds of users post comments, but very rarely do they receive an official reply. This update was a case in point. Once the complaints started rolling in it took a considerable time before users were provided with any official advice as to what action to take. A lot of forum members were providing advice on files to delete, and as well meaning as this advice was, it’s not really a good idea to have users deleting files from within the Sim unless this is absolutely essential. Would it not have been better for Microsoft to have an expert on duty whenever there is a Sim update, to monitor the forum and provide prompt official advice if updates start to go wrong?

Now we have the official advice on the forum. I consider myself relatively computer literate, but I wouldn’t want to start taking the actions listed unless I had to. This begs the question as to why the update system can cause problems and whether the process is robust enough. Surely if particular downloaded files are faulty the download system can automatically check them, and delete them if required. Microsoft must issue thousands of Windows downloads annually, so one would have thought that they had developed a robust file checking system. If there is not a robust testing system perhaps now is the time to write a process that will test all the files in the Sim and automatically replace any that are faulty, thus saving users from the task of individually fault finding.

Once again the Sim update process, whereby every user is forced to both download and install updates at the same time, is brought into focus. I always believed the reasoning was that all users had to have the same version of the Sim in order to correctly accept the various weather, scenery AI traffic information provided from the servers. Is this the case? How is it then that BETA users can operate for months prior to the official update? Surely if BETA users can pre install and run sim updates then other users could install their updates during a rolling period, which might take several days but would be better than the chaos of update 13. As I said earlier I’m no expert, but there must be a better system than at present.

I want to be fair to Microsoft, they have created a wonderfully immersive flight simulator experience, which has not yet been perfected. As frustrating as it is at times it still provides me with great enjoyment and I really want it to fully succeed. I think if we all worked together and communicated more fully the experience would be wonderful.

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I am still in the process of reinstalling the entire sim and all third party addons. I have talked with numerous people that tried to update via the MS Store that experienced the same thing as I. The entire installation and all third party addons deleted when trying to do the SU13 update via the MS Store. This should NEVER happen and needs to be investigated.

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A reputation takes years to build up, but only a moment to lose. As a solution architect, it is my job to evaluate and recommend these systems as well as design solutions in them so they don’t fail. I also used to be the guy clients called to write automated performance tests to put load on the servers and measure their responses. So, I am very familiar with this scenario. That was a very embarrassing moment for Microsoft Azure Cloud services.
Does anyone have a link to the apology?

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For room rearrangement reasons, my flightsim PC had been dismantled since before Beta 13 was released.

By coincidence, it was back on line the day after the release of 13. I simply opened msfs and it updated itself, then in the content manager, I updated just the UK files.

It may have downloaded slowly, but at the same time a shedload of Windows Updates were also running, so that’s to be expected

After trying a few flights, I let some more content manager updates run overnight.

The updates all seemed to go well, and it seems to me that it works more smoothly than I remember.

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OP, well done. I have often wondered why Asobo or someone in the Dev end of things doesn’t routinely respond to issues discussed on this forum. Case in point, I currently have a thread open discussing the use or not use of the Rolling Cache. I would think the devs could easily respond to an issue like that and set us all straight, but no. I read the forum daily and frequently see issues that seem to beg for dev input but it is seldom forthcoming. Bummer.

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I think you miss the most important one: it doesn´t matter how professional you want to be. A crisis will always show how amateur you are indeed.

It took 3 days to set a workaround for something that should never have happened as the process has been applied for 3 years and everyone should know at that point that most users will need to apply patch in a small time interval after announcement because it´s mandatory. There was no backup service ready on standby to deal with an eventual failure nor any automated patch rollback solution for users. However disabling forum polls voting was apparently one of the most important and immeadiate actions to apply.

By the way the patching process still fails. Incomplete files are downloaded and several items are downloaded without any order even after patch screen is over and game is already at loading screen . This is still far from being solved.

Cheers

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Because once you start responding to some posts, you’re expected to respond to everything, and anyone who’s actually involved in developing the sim (or managing the infrastructure) should be spending their time on that and not dealing with customers. As much as I’d like to hear from the devs directly more than we do, I understand why they aren’t opening that particular can of worms.

MS is adding community managers here (hi Chewwy!) but there’s never going to be enough of them to routinely monitor and answer every question that’s asked. There’s a reason why you’re not supposed to @ any of them directly.

Also, you have to bear in mind that quite often, anyone officially representing MS or Asobo on the forum here would have to clear whatever statement they make before they can make it. I work for a very large company here in the UK that you will have heard of, and while I’m pretty senior on the engineering side, I can’t speak publicly about anything we do unless a) it’s already in the public domain, or b) I get it cleared with our public relations team. There’s a company line to toe and I have to toe it. It’s no different at Microsoft or any other big tech company.

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IMO, needs to be investigated why people insist on installing MSFS updates without first emptying the Community folder or at least renaming it Community.OLD and creating a new empty Community folder.
This is the first rule to respect and it has been written countless times.

My community folder was renamed, it deleted everything in my original installation path…the entire sim and the entire renamed community…GONE.

Ever hear the old saying never assume? Because it makes an _SS out of U and ME.

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Lesson learned: don’t design a system where you require special end-user actions to succeed. They just won’t do it.

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Even to change a light bulb you are told to turn off the power.
If you don’t do it, you act at your own risk :wink:

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FlyOne, Interesting insights, thanks.

Mine was just advice, I’m sincerely sorry if you had these problems.
I’ve had MSFS since it came out in August 2020 and have never had any problems, perhaps because I use HotSwap SSDs and have dedicated one of them for MSFS with a cleaned Windows with mandatory updates and nothing else.
I have never even installed the MSFS pre-releases precisely because they could create problems when the final update comes out. :slight_smile:

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I have also had MSFS since release. This is the first time I have had any issues what so ever performing an update. My PC is basically dedicated to DCS, IL-2, and MSFS. MSFS was installed on its own drive. The update via the MS Store hung and then when looking at the install drive…the installation path and everything in it was nuked.

As important as this forum is for quickly providing information about the major installation issues and workaround with this update, not everyone reads this forum. Some users on other social media platforms are posting their installation download problem. The comments point them to this forum for the workaround.

There should be some way to communicate to all users no matter what social media is used or if no social media is used.

It has taken me since 6am on Wednesday when I started the update and has just now finished at 23:!5 on Saturday I had just got onto my profile to discover everything has gone. Every pay-ware, freeware plug-in all gone back to the base package. it is going to probably take me another 12 hours to get my sim back to the standard it was in before SU13 I am so annoyed!

While I totally get your point and do agree that they can’t go setting a precedent to be here answering every little question… it still seems right that SOME points raised or queries by customers should warrant escalation to get some kind of official answers from the developers.

I mean, things that really should be written in a manual (which doesn’t exist). Like what DOES the rolling cache ACTUALLY do. It is a valid question about a core feature that goes unexplained. Just one example.

I also find it a bit strange that a game so focussed on “community” has no involvement from a representative of the developer that can give accurate and semi-timely answers and advice to users. Just the same question.is allowed to go in circles unanswered for ever. Smaller teams manage it very well and still have time to make their game, so something doesn’t really add up. It’s not like we need all 500 developers talking in here. Just 1 rep that has talked to the right person inside to get the actual answer would be fine. And ONLY about clearing up some of these mysteries. Not “why does the fuel selector switch not animate in the DC-3” type of questions :wink:

P.S. I forgot to remove / rename my Community folder before doing SU13 update and all ok :+1:

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yup. sim totally nuked on my end. starting from scratch. gotta laugh…1 step forward, 2 steps back with this sim.

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Got lucky, was too busy to use MSFS so did not update. Now that I read this topic, I expect an “All Clear” message from Microsoft when it is safe to do so, but it is not assured that it will be provided - the message at the top indicates that they have still not found the cause, Oh, well.

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Agreed. I have no pressing need to play for the next week or two. I’ll just wait this one out.

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